Vancouver city councillor proposes shifting property tax burden from businesses to pr

[Sheba]

Let the fireworks begin...

Global News

As Vancouver city council debates its proposed budget Thursday, one city councillor wants to make some changes to the proposed property tax hike in order to help local businesses.

NPA Coun. Sarah Kirby-Yung tabled a motion Thursday asking to explore shifting two per cent of the fixed property tax levy from business to residential, saying retail shops are suffering in the current market.

“It’s become increasingly difficult to operate, particularly for small businesses in the city,” Kirby-Yung said. “We are losing a lot of heart and soul in neighbourhoods that way.

“This [tax shift] is something that [business improvement associations] advocated for on behalf of their business members, specifically for this and specifically in this amount.”

Council is already considering a 4.9-per-cent property tax hike for residents, which Kirby-Yung said she does not support. She’s also asking staff to take a second look at that proposal and hopes cutting it down would make room for her proposed tax shift.

Kirby-Yung said she would also ask staff at Thursday’s council meeting to look for more savings in the proposed budget to further help alleviate the 4.9-per-cent tax hike or hold off on approving that budget.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Let the fireworks begin...

TBH, not really that bad an idea. But I'll leave the discussion to the others.

[jollyburger]

Pretty clear when she's against the residential tax hike that she's just floating out BS ideas.

[WarrenC12]

Fireworks are over. Council approved a 4.5% property tax hike.

The annual timing of this in relation to the election is stupid.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Shows pretty clear when she's against the residential tax hike that she's just floating out BS ideas.

It's weird, she doesn't agree with increasing the tax burden on residential properties yet agrees with shifting the tax burden from commercial properties to residential properties?

[whatnext]

Everybody promises to do this. Vision made that promise in 2008 (and broke it). Vancouver puts way too much of the burden on businesses compared to residential. Though I find it ironic Kirby-Young, along with NPA and Greens, voted for asking the provincial government to remove the speculator's tax to wealthy homeowners.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Everybody promises to do this. Vision made that promise in 2008 (and broke it). Vancouver puts way too much of the burden on businesses compared to residential. Though I find it ironic Kirby-Young, along with NPA and Greens, voted for asking the provincial government to remove the speculator's tax to wealthy homeowners.

Not true. In 2008 the NPA controlled Council moved the proportion of tax burden from business to residential. Vision Vancouver won the 2008 election, and continued to shift the proportion from business onto residential taxes every year until 2012.

[WarrenC12]

Yes, the shift has been gradual. I think with politics being what it is, it's more palatable when there aren't already big budget increases, like this year.

If they were able to freeze costs, that would be a good time to shift taxes to residential property, giving them a small increase only.

[misher]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes, the shift has been gradual. I think with politics being what it is, it's more palatable when there aren't already big budget increases, like this year.

If they were able to freeze costs, that would be a good time to shift taxes to residential property, giving them a small increase only.

I'm supportive of property taxes tied to inflation, if renters can't afford it how can homeowners & businesses. Its Canada we're supposed to be about equality. Hell the middle is supposed to get all the benefits.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Not true. In 2008 the NPA controlled Council moved the proportion of tax burden from business to residential. Vision Vancouver won the 2008 election, and continued to shift the proportion from business onto residential taxes every year until 2012.

Oops. you're right. I was thinking of the backlash from the Fair Tax Coalition that occurred in 2012 when they stopped the shift.

[GMasterAres]

Reducing business tax is historically not a bad idea in the long term because typically any increase to the resident is made up for in reduced costs to the business being passed on.

[GMasterAres]

Also keep in mind, 1.7% of that is a result of the payroll tax imposed by the NDP government on all businesses with over $500,000 in payroll. Each city has a property tax line item to cover this tax impact to the budget.

So technically Vancouver's "property tax" increase would have been 2.8% if not for the MSP replacement. When the NDP once again is in the news touting how it is doing away with MSP, just realize they didn't and have instead hid the tax away from you and you're ultimately going to pay more in the long run in your property taxes / rent, groceries, gas, etc. From Safeway to Walmart, Chevron to the City of Vancouver, this new tax will just be passed on to us the consumer.

A page from the Bill Vander Zalm book of taxing the peons by hiding it under the covers.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Reducing business tax is historically not a bad idea in the long term because typically any increase to the resident is made up for in reduced costs to the business being passed on.

Business can write off taxes from their revenue though. I can't (unless it's a rental property of course). There's a limit to what is reasonable.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Also keep in mind, 1.7% of that is a result of the payroll tax imposed by the NDP government on all businesses with over $500,000 in payroll. Each city has a property tax line item to cover this tax impact to the budget.

So technically Vancouver's "property tax" increase would have been 2.8% if not for the MSP replacement. When the NDP once again is in the news touting how it is doing away with MSP, just realize they didn't and have instead hid the tax away from you and you're ultimately going to pay more in the long run in your property taxes / rent, groceries, gas, etc. From Safeway to Walmart, Chevron to the City of Vancouver, this new tax will just be passed on to us the consumer.

A page from the Bill Vander Zalm book of taxing the peons by hiding it under the covers.

Yes that is biting everyone, everywhere. I think getting rid of MSP is good, but it should have just resulted in tweaks to the personal and corporate income tax brackets.

Also water and sewer rates are up something like 9% this year. I don't know if that is part of the 4.5% math, but probably not as they are separate line items on SFH taxes, and billed separately for strata buildings.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Also keep in mind, 1.7% of that is a result of the payroll tax imposed by the NDP government on all businesses with over $500,000 in payroll. Each city has a property tax line item to cover this tax impact to the budget.

So technically Vancouver's "property tax" increase would have been 2.8% if not for the MSP replacement. When the NDP once again is in the news touting how it is doing away with MSP, just realize they didn't and have instead hid the tax away from you and you're ultimately going to pay more in the long run in your property taxes / rent, groceries, gas, etc. From Safeway to Walmart, Chevron to the City of Vancouver, this new tax will just be passed on to us the consumer.

A page from the Bill Vander Zalm book of taxing the peons by hiding it under the covers.

Was the city not paying employees MSP premiums? That's pretty standard in a lot of extended health packages.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by fredinno

TBH, not really that bad an idea. But I'll leave the discussion to the others.

I guess you don't own property in Vancouer?

If they really are shifting the business tax cut to property owners, it would ideally be good, but I doubt that. The business tax would go down, but not by much. The excess revenue would just go to payroll. Expect an increase in salaries for the executives and city staff next year. That's my opinion.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Was the city not paying employees MSP premiums? That's pretty standard in a lot of extended health packages.

The government is double dipping in 2019. They are collecting 50% of the old MSP payments, and the new payroll tax.

The payroll tax is also escalating based on the size of the business:

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...ts-loss-from-cancelling-medical-premiums

Bottom line is, instead of everybody (or their employer) paying MSP, the burden will be shifted to a smaller group of companies with payrolls over $500k.

So the big question is, we will see reductions from all of these businesses and governments in 2020? Not likely.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The government is double dipping in 2019. They are collecting 50% of the old MSP payments, and the new payroll tax.

The payroll tax is also escalating based on the size of the business:

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...ts-loss-from-cancelling-medical-premiums

Bottom line is, instead of everybody (or their employer) paying MSP, the burden will be shifted to a smaller group of companies with payrolls over $500k.

So the big question is, we will see reductions from all of these businesses and governments in 2020? Not likely.

Originally Posted by Vin

I guess you don't own property in Vancouer?

If they really are shifting the business tax cut to property owners, it would ideally be good, but I doubt that. The business tax would go down, but not by much. The excess revenue would just go to payroll. Expect an increase in salaries for the executives and city staff next year. That's my opinion.

TBH, Vancouver overall needs to diversify its economy out of real estate, and you can't do that by increasing tax premiums on businesses.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by fredinno

TBH, Vancouver overall needs to diversify its economy out of real estate, and you can't do that by increasing tax premiums on businesses.

The MSP was a horribly regressive tax and I'm glad it's gone. Businesses have a pretty low tax rate in BC. It would be nice if they shared some of our leading economic growth with their employees.

[Sheba]

Vancouver council approves 2% tax shift from businesses to homeowners

Vancouver businesses being squeezed by the city’s high real estate prices are getting some relief from City Hall.

On Monday, council voted to shift 2 per cent of the tax burden from businesses to homeowners.

This comes after City staff recommended against the shift, warning it will add a burden to homeowners, and would benefit large corporations that don’t need the help, along with small businesses.

Homeowners have also not had the chance to weigh in on the shift.

However, councillors like Sarah Kirby-Yung say local small businesses need to be kept alive.

“I think that they needed immediate relief,” she said. “We have businesses that are closing down, that are moving out of our neighbourhoods and what we want to see is complete communities across the city.”

The change will be phased in over three years, starting with a 1 per cent shift in May.

Council asked staff to explore the idea and its consequences back in December, as skyrocketing property values left some small business owners facing tax bills that doubled in just a couple of years.

Businesses occupy just seven per cent of properties in the city, but are responsible for 45 per cent of Vancouver’s tax bill. Businesses that don’t own their properties are still hit, because most commercial leases pass the tax bill on to the tenant.

...

The potential tax shift could cost residents between $40 to $80 per year, but Sullivan said that could result in a difference of $500 to $600 in lower taxes for a business.