The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Fischbob]

Further to the above, here is Historica's press release on the sale of City Hall.

For Immediate Release
December 4, 2018

BRIDEAU & ELIAS’ BUY CITY HALL

It’s official! Keith Brideau, Alex Elias and Dr. David Elias have acquired the Saint John City Hall Building and will be redeveloping it over the next few years. The building is located at 15 Market Square – the very heart of Saint John. It is one of New Brunswick’s tallest and most recognizable buildings. At 16 storeys, it includes over 100 parking spaces and is located in the center of Saint John’s pedway system – one of the longest in Atlantic Canada.

The Elias’ and Brideau are incredibly excited about the project and what the redevelopment of the building will do for the city. The building was built in 1971 and has served as City Hall ever since. It consists of 180,000 square feet of office space, the City of Saint John council chambers, and retail shops on the pedway level. They will be redeveloping the entire building so that it is one of the best and most beautiful in New Brunswick. Currently, there is approximately 100,000 square feet of space available for lease. This presents a tremendous opportunity for any business that is looking to expand or move to what will soon be known as the best address in New Brunswick.
The first phase of the project involves developing Saint John’s new City Hall on the bottom four floors and modernization of the lobby and council chambers on the mezzanine level. When complete, city staff and council will have a space they can be truly proud of. It will be modern, efficient and functional so they can complete their work at the highest level possible. The general public will also notice and appreciate a new City Hall experience as all customer facing departments and services will be located on the ground level which is both highly visible and accessible. More details on the city’s new space will be provided by the City of Saint John as soon as their plans are finalized.

In addition to a new City Hall, the new owners will also be making significant improvements to the rest of the building as they look to attract high quality tenants to the upper floors. The building offers incredible one of a kind harbour and city views like nothing else in the province. Couple this with three new elevators, parking for over 100 vehicles, and its prime location in the center of the pedway system, and it’s hard to imagine anything better.
Improvements will be made to the exterior of the property to make it more functional, attractive, and inviting to the public. The new owners envision an upgraded plaza with a modern look and feel, more greenery, and new high-quality lighting that accents the property. The pedway and building entrances will also be upgraded so they are upscale and aligned with the rest of this first-class building.

In summary, this project will be another game changer for Uptown Saint John, an area that’s quickly become one of the most sought after and vibrant neighborhoods in New Brunswick. It will create many new jobs during construction, it will add more density to the area, make Saint John more attractive, and give Saint John city staff and council a space in which they will enjoy working in.

For more information on the above, please contact Keith Brideau at 506.214.4777.

Both developers have completed over a dozen major redevelopments in the area over the past decade. Their projects have played a pivotal role in transforming the face of Saint John for future generations.

Source

Looks like the upper floors of the building will be renovated, but remain commercial in use. Hopefully they can secure some high-quality tenants to fill the space - the office market in SJ is still experiencing challenging vacancy rates - 18.18% for Class A.

[JHikka]

I'm looking forward to the renovated plaza in front of City Hall. Lots of potential there for a nice bus shelter along with making it a bit friendlier.

[RR Drummer]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm looking forward to the renovated plaza in front of City Hall. Lots of potential there for a nice bus shelter along with making it a bit friendlier.

Ditto...What he said 😇🤗

[Taeolas]

Looks like the Museum remains a pipedream at the moment:

Details on CBC

The government is postponing several major, high-profile projects, including:

A new Centennial Building and courthouse complex in Fredericton
A new New Brunswick Museum in Saint John
Route 11 upgrades between Cocagne River and Little Bouctouche River and between Glenwood and Miramichi
Planning for a new school in Moncton to replace Bessborough and Hillcrest schools
The design of a new K-8 school in Campbellton
Renovations to the Memramcook Institute.

[JHikka]

^^ beat me by two seconds!

Unfortunate that the project on the waterfront is postponed. I guess the PCs don't see the value in urban revitalization.

This line is pretty jarring, though:

Originally Posted by CBCNB

Total spending is $600.6 million in 2019-2020, far below the $865.5 million the Liberals had forecast for the same year.

[Fischbob]

Disappointing... I guess a dozen more people should have voted PC in Saint John Harbour.

Kicking the new NBM project down the road is only going to work for so long. The collections centre and archives on Douglas Avenue in particular is in very bad shape and its continued use without a major investment is seriously endangering the collection...

[RaginRonic]

Originally Posted by JHikka

^^ beat me by two seconds!

Unfortunate that the project on the waterfront is postponed. I guess the PCs don't see the value in urban revitalization.

This line is pretty jarring, though:

It's pretty simple...the economy is the only topic of conversation that all of Canada's PC parties care about, and only if any money flows only into their pockets.

When, in reality, all of Canada's conservative politicians are lying if they say they're having money problems. They aren't, and never have. Which is why it should be verboten for anyone in those parties to get any pay, bonuses, or pensions for being in politics.

They work for free. And the other parties never should owe the PCs anything at all, which includes money.

Let the PCs starve into bankruptcy.

=P

[cdnguys]

Definitely disappointing but imagine how people in Fredericton feel having their new justice centre canceled after Moncton and Saint John recently built new ones. My hopes now are on the private sector to build a 400 room hotel and casino because in my opinion the area now has enough to offer to be competive with the casino at bottom of mountain rd.
When the province first looked at casino locations SJ didn’t have the developed restaurant scene it now has.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Definitely disappointing but imagine how people in Fredericton feel having their new justice centre canceled after Moncton and Saint John recently built new ones. My hopes now are on the private sector to build a 400 room hotel and casino because in my opinion the area now has enough to offer to be competive with the casino at bottom of mountain rd.
When the province first looked at casino locations SJ didn’t have the developed restaurant scene it now has.

The government said that only one casino would be allowed in the province when Moncton was selected as the sight for it. Maybe that has changed but not that I know of. It would need a policy change.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

The government said that only one casino would be allowed in the province when Moncton was selected as the sight for it. Maybe that has changed but not that I know of. It would need a policy change.

There is a casino (of sorts) in Edmundston. Of course, this is run by the natives. Perhaps SJ could form some type of relationship with the Micmac or Maliseet nations......

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There is a casino (of sorts) in Edmundston. Of course, this is run by the natives. Perhaps SJ could form some type of relationship with the Micmac or Maliseet nations......

I've driven past it a least a half dozen times this year, the grey rock, exactly the natives have it, that of course if different.

[MonctonRad]

In any event, I am not opposed to a casino in SJ, even a provincially run one. I doubt it would cut into business from the Moncton casino very much.

A proper business case would have to be made however. A waterfront location would be good, but I seriously doubt there would be that much business generated from cruise ship passengers. I don't think many of them take cruises to visit casinos in every port.

Another issue is that I believe the operator of the Moncton casino has an exclusivity clause with the province. This would have to be renegotiated.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Definitely disappointing but imagine how people in Fredericton feel having their new justice centre canceled after Moncton and Saint John recently built new ones.

A new justice centre is not something that most people think of as essential infrastructure so I'm not sure people care that much.

That said, it — that the Centennial Building will continue to sit empty and gutted beside a hole in the ground for the new justice centre.

[Taeolas]

For Freddy, I have many issues with putting the justice building on hold.

The biggest issue I have is that significant work has already started on the building; Centennial building is unusable at the moment, especially with its backhalf torn down. The plans are made, I'm sure the contractors were hired, a pipeline of material had been set up for the building construction.

So by putting that project on hold, what are we really saving?

Some day down the road, the work will have to be restarted, so everything in the works now will have to be restarted, and will probably cost more because of the interruption (inflation alone will guarantee that, but I'm sure the contractors bidding on it will add a Government Stupidity fee in their bids)

In the mean time, the Centennial building will have to be maintained. It will be a cost on the government budget that isn't being used so we aren't getting any bang for our buck there. And with its back half torn off, the maintenance costs will be even higher since it isn't as water tight as a complete building would be.

On top of that, the building was going to consolidate Justice offices from across the city. Now all that space that was going to be freed up needs to be leased/kept for an indefinite time going forward. Hopefully landlords didn't lease out the DoJ space to new tenants too quick.

At least the NBMuseum project was still in the design/development stage. While I don't like seeing it cancelled/delayed, the sunk costs for it isn't as bad. The Justice building renovations was much further along. It should have been untouchable at this stage due to how much physical work has already happened.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

For Freddy, I have many issues with putting the justice building on hold.

The biggest issue I have is that significant work has already started on the building; Centennial building is unusable at the moment, especially with its backhalf torn down. The plans are made, I'm sure the contractors were hired, a pipeline of material had been set up for the building construction.

So by putting that project on hold, what are we really saving?

Some day down the road, the work will have to be restarted, so everything in the works now will have to be restarted, and will probably cost more because of the interruption (inflation alone will guarantee that, but I'm sure the contractors bidding on it will add a Government Stupidity fee in their bids)

In the mean time, the Centennial building will have to be maintained. It will be a cost on the government budget that isn't being used so we aren't getting any bang for our buck there. And with its back half torn off, the maintenance costs will be even higher since it isn't as water tight as a complete building would be.

On top of that, the building was going to consolidate Justice offices from across the city. Now all that space that was going to be freed up needs to be leased/kept for an indefinite time going forward. Hopefully landlords didn't lease out the DoJ space to new tenants too quick.

At least the NBMuseum project was still in the design/development stage. While I don't like seeing it cancelled/delayed, the sunk costs for it isn't as bad. The Justice building renovations was much further along. It should have been untouchable at this stage due to how much physical work has already happened.

I'll add my name to that.

[RR Drummer]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

I'll add my name to that.

Unfortunately all predictable that new PC Government would at least postphone said projects in the name of fiscal responsibility. Here’s hoping they will come to their senses on the important ones.

[NB_ExistsToo]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

For Freddy, I have many issues with putting the justice building on hold.

The biggest issue I have is that significant work has already started on the building; Centennial building is unusable at the moment, especially with its backhalf torn down. The plans are made, I'm sure the contractors were hired, a pipeline of material had been set up for the building construction.

So by putting that project on hold, what are we really saving?

Some day down the road, the work will have to be restarted, so everything in the works now will have to be restarted, and will probably cost more because of the interruption (inflation alone will guarantee that, but I'm sure the contractors bidding on it will add a Government Stupidity fee in their bids)

In the mean time, the Centennial building will have to be maintained. It will be a cost on the government budget that isn't being used so we aren't getting any bang for our buck there. And with its back half torn off, the maintenance costs will be even higher since it isn't as water tight as a complete building would be.
.

Yeah, not really sure what their plan is with the Centennial... Contracts were already awarded. There's likely quite a penalty to just stop the project halfway through

[Fischbob]

Higgs' first round of cuts make me wonder what might be next on the chopping block. Are other key catalytic urban revitalization projects at risk? I'm thinking specifically about the proposed Central Peninsula K-8 school slated to replace Prince Charles and St. John the Baptist, which has been endorsed as a priority by the Anglophone South DEC and for which a great degree of planning has already occurred behind the scenes.

I've personally been hoping it would be open by the time my infant is school-aged, but with the backpedaling on already-funded projects it seems likely that other capital expenditures like this one may be pushed back too.

And with my revised expectations of this government, now I'm just praying my family's child care subsidy is safe...

[Fischbob]

So vacant buildings have been falling like dominoes in the Old North End in recent weeks, either at the hands of fire or through a redoubled push from the City's Vacant, Dilapidated and Dangerous Buildings Program.

While some might argue the loss of these buildings is unfortunate, I share the opinion of the ONE Change and the residents interviewed in this article who see this particular round of demolitions as a positive and perhaps necessary step in the rebounding of the neighbourhood. The next step, one fraught with uncertainty at this point, is for developers to step up and fill in the vacant gaps.

The North End has an excellent urban street grid, above-average access to parks/playgrounds/recreational infrastructure, and fantastic river views. It has a lot of the right building blocks for becoming a vibrant residential neighbourhood again.

However, right now it feels somewhat isolated from other amenities. The Lansdowne corridor turns its back on the neighbourhood. The Main Street/Viaduct area is a pedestrian nightmare that currently hampers access to the Central Peninsula. Bus service through the neighbourhood proper is winding and infrequent (the 25 Millidgeville route). Addressing these barriers is a necessary part of any revitalization strategy.

I'd also like to see a return of some more mixed use elements to the Old North End, along key legacy corridors like Adelaide and Main. Not so much that it overwhelms the residential character of the neighbourhood, but enough to provide more places to go and things to do, that can in turn attract more residents.

The City's next neighbourhood plan is going to encompass the North End and Crescent Valley, and I'm looking forward to exploring these ideas further as that process ramps up.

I'd love to hear others' thoughts about how the Old North End might be turned around.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

So vacant buildings have been falling like dominoes in the Old North End in recent weeks, either at the hands of fire or through a redoubled push from the City's Vacant, Dilapidated and Dangerous Buildings Program.

While some might argue the loss of these buildings is unfortunate, I share the opinion of the ONE Change and the residents interviewed in this article who see this particular round of demolitions as a positive and perhaps necessary step in the rebounding of the neighbourhood. The next step, one fraught with uncertainty at this point, is for developers to step up and fill in the vacant gaps.

The North End has an excellent urban street grid, above-average access to parks/playgrounds/recreational infrastructure, and fantastic river views. It has a lot of the right building blocks for becoming a vibrant residential neighbourhood again.

However, right now it feels somewhat isolated from other amenities. The Lansdowne corridor turns its back on the neighbourhood. The Main Street/Viaduct area is a pedestrian nightmare that currently hampers access to the Central Peninsula. Bus service through the neighbourhood proper is winding and infrequent (the 25 Millidgeville route). Addressing these barriers is a necessary part of any revitalization strategy.

I'd also like to see a return of some more mixed use elements to the Old North End, along key legacy corridors like Adelaide and Main. Not so much that it overwhelms the residential character of the neighbourhood, but enough to provide more places to go and things to do, that can in turn attract more residents.

The City's next neighbourhood plan is going to encompass the North End and Crescent Valley, and I'm looking forward to exploring these ideas further as that process ramps up.

I'd love to hear others' thoughts about how the Old North End might be turned around.

It's sad to see those buildings go but as you have pointed out some have been gutted by fire, and others seemingly left untouched until they where deemed a safety hazard, and demolished.

There was a group on Facebook a while back named something like "Rebuild Saint-John" The group is gone but they had a lot of Post calling for people to be moved out of the north end into other areas, and turn it almost into a blank slate to rebuild. Although they had some good ideas they where ban for in-sighting hate. Not counting there call to ban poorer families the call to fix the section of street grid that are off the mix Commercial-Office, and Residential on Main, and Lansdowne Avenue. There was also a post about having point towers but I'm not sure if it was for the north end, or the peninsula.



P.S. for those who wonder what a point tower is from Designers, and Builders it is a building that is built directly onto the sidewalk constituting a 2-3 story building with a narrow tower built on top. The lower portion can be either Residential townhome, or commercial/office space.

P.P.S. The reason for these types of Structures is to have the most housing possible without blocking out to much light from the sidewalk below, and this seems to work well where they have been built.