Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Bombaman]

Most people on the Vancouver TRANSIT forum are pro-skytrain? Yes, but they are not pro-Surrey skytrain extension. They have nothing to do with Mcnut getting elected as Surrey Mayor. In fact, most of the people in other parts of Metro Vancouver think McNut is an idiot, so are the majority of his voters. You will find the answer if you spend time to check the CTV news or other media outlets. I can't see building a half — skytrain extension to fleewood is good for Surrey at all and because of it, the people in Surrey has to pay more taxes, other projects or infrastructures have to be cut, and people in some communities would not be served. The obsession of getting a little section of skytrain is just pure stupidity. It would make sense if the two planned LRT lines can be replaced by the skytrain with the current funding but not in expense of so many other things.

Originally Posted by Kisai

Nah, most people on the Vancouver TRANSIT forum are pro-skytrain because it's a proven technology that we ALREADY USE. Safe, reliable, fast, goes to places people actually want to go, etc.

Every time a LRT or Streetcar proposal is brought up, the politicians don't think 30 years out, they don't think beyond their mandate. Hence why the entire Millenium line didn't get built originally (three phases remember?), hence why the Canada Line was rushed for the Olympics, etc.

It's never been about picking the technology itself, it's about having an integrated system that has the least obstacles to it's use, and highest frequency. The system is automated, I can take the Skytrain from Metrotown to Production Way, King George, or Waterfront, or any station in between, and not have to hop on a bus. If I want to get to the Airport, I switch to the Canada Line at Waterfront, if I want to get to the Ferry I take the same Canada Line to Bridgeport and then take the 620. If I want to go to Seattle, I can get off the Skytrain at Main street and take the Amtrak.

If the system had drivers, there would be accidents, frequently. There would be strike action from unions. If it was all at grade, then it would have hundreds of accidents per month from tresspassing alone, not to mention collisions and entire vehicle write-offs from car-LRV accidents.

Now I doubt McCallum understands, or even cares about any of that. He saw a good way to win, and that was by killing the LRT project, and if that's why Surrey voted for him, then that was the will of the people of Surrey, and that was a smart move. One can make the same argument about voting the NDP back in, the kids don't remember what it was like living under the NDP before, and there's still no Uber. Politicians over-promise during election time, and that's the only time any big-ticket item will ever be put on the ballot by voting for someone. You never see these projects proposed outside of election time, and when they happen (Remember the Fast Ferry Fiasco, the Surrey LRT would be oh so much worse) those that take power take great joy in destroying the vanity project.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Let's remember the Canada Line, people; in their infinite wisdom, the province decided to save half a billion and get it done in time for the Olympics, and we ended up with a clown car. Better to pay now than pay later.

My estimates were specifically done to cut costs to the point where you wouldn't have to rebuild large parts of the line to save money.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Bombaman

Most people on the Vancouver TRANSIT forum are pro-skytrain? Yes, but they are not pro-Surrey skytrain extension. They have nothing to do with Mcnut getting elected as Surrey Mayor. In fact, most of the people in other parts of Metro Vancouver think McNut is an idiot, so are the majority of his voters. You will find the answer if you spend time to check the CTV news or other media outlets. I can't see building a half — skytrain extension to fleewood is good for Surrey at all and because of it, the people in Surrey has to pay more taxes, other projects or infrastructures have to be cut, and people in some communities would not be served. The obsession of getting a little section of skytrain is just pure stupidity. It would make sense if the two planned LRT lines can be replaced by the skytrain with the current funding but not in expense of so many other things.

The only reason McCallum got elected is because they wanted Hepner and Surrey First out, since they were shoving a bus-on-rails in the middle of busy streets against the wishes of the voters (and backstabbing Langley while they were at it). I don't like McCallum either but at least he's trying to keep his word from two months ago (though he needs to do a better job at it). He just needs to stop being a cloudcuckoolander by doing the fast-and-dirty approach.

It bothers me that people are saying that SkyTrain should never extend to Fleetwood and Langley because they're "suburbia" and Newton should deserve one. It's a REGIONAL project, not a Surrey one, even though only 1/8 of the line is in Langley.

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

The only reason McCallum got elected is because they wanted Hepner and Surrey First out, since they were shoving a bus-on-rails in the middle of busy streets against the wishes of the voters (and backstabbing Langley while they were at it). I don't like McCallum either but at least he's trying to keep his word from two months ago (though he needs to do a better job at it). He just needs to stop being a cloudcuckoolander by doing the fast-and-dirty approach.

It bothers me that people are saying that SkyTrain should never extend to Fleetwood and Langley because they're "suburbia" and Newton should deserve one. It's REGIONAL project, not a Surrey one, even though only 1/8 of the line is in Langley.

Totally agree. McCallum promised big, and the voters responded positively at the ballot box. Bruce Hayne and Integrity Now could’ve also been elected for SkyTrain, but at first he said that the SNG line should be LRT, but build SkyTrain on Fraser Highway. Hayne then changed his mind halfway through the election and wanted a “pause” on LRT. He and 2 of his council candidates were former members of Surrey First, and that could be a reason people didn’t rush to vote for them.

In LRT vs. SkyTrain arguments, the pro-LRT side often said that LRT will move people within Surrey, while SkyTrain moves people out of Surrey. But any rapid transit project should be viewed with a regional perspective. Metro Vancouver is pretty small compared to other metropolitan areas in Canada, and having a rapid transit project serve a single municipality because it is about to overtake Vancouver in terms of population is shortsighted and doesn’t help the region. Municipal governments tend to be myopic in transit planning, as evidenced by the opinion piece published in the Burnaby Now. Everyone is thinking What can help my city? And if it doesn’t help my city, what can I do to make sure it is as low-cost as possible so the residents won’t revolt?.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

My estimates were specifically done to cut costs to the point where you wouldn't have to rebuild large parts of the line to save money.

Well, you suggested letting the private sector do the stations. Problem is, as with the Canada, that means we have to wait until said private sector finally gets around to building them, and that's dependent on getting City Hall to approve their redevelopment; some stations might end up waiting a decade or more for the final plan (e.g. Langara Gardens). There would be limited ridership and urban growth in the meantime.

Victoria may want to consider a system where TransLink can redevelop property themselves, a la Hong Kong's MTR. Failing that, TL needs more green bonds.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

The only reason McCallum got elected is because they wanted Hepner and Surrey First out, since they were shoving a bus-on-rails in the middle of busy streets against the wishes of the voters (and backstabbing Langley while they were at it). I don't like McCallum either but at least he's trying to keep his word from two months ago (though he needs to do a better job at it). He just needs to stop being a cloudcuckoolander by doing the fast-and-dirty approach.

It bothers me that people are saying that SkyTrain should never extend to Fleetwood and Langley because they're "suburbia" and Newton should deserve one. It's a REGIONAL project, not a Surrey one, even though only 1/8 of the line is in Langley.

Ditto!!! Doug had no intention of running until he was pulled from retirement to try and boot the group of shysters called Surrey First. Thank goodness he won but I hope he doesn't do stupid stuff over the next 4 years.

[Bombaman]

Warning, idiot detected.

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Ditto!!! Doug had no intention of running until he was pulled from retirement to try and boot the group of shysters called Surrey First. Thank goodness he won but I hope he doesn't do stupid stuff over the next 4 years.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Bombaman

Warning, idiot detected.

i see your type. if someone disagrees with you they are uneducated, idiots, etc. let me guess, you also call people racists, xenophobes, etc. if they disagree with your opinion that to.



must be a troll paid for by the BIA's in Surrey as that would be the only logical reasoning for your opinions and insults.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Well, you suggested letting the private sector do the stations. Problem is, as with the Canada, that means we have to wait until said private sector finally gets around to building them, and that's dependent on getting City Hall to approve their redevelopment; some stations might end up waiting a decade or more for the final plan (e.g. Langara Gardens). There would be limited ridership and urban growth in the meantime.

Victoria may want to consider a system where TransLink can redevelop property themselves, a la Hong Kong's MTR. Failing that, TL needs more green bonds.

TBF, over half of the demand on the line is supposed to come from only 3 stations; 152nd, 164th St, and Langley City Central. The rest are mostly small feeder stations intended to be hubs for future development, lacking demand far below the worst-used Expo stations.


It's not that big a loss, even with half your potential demand curtailed. The Millennium Line took almost a decade to get enough demand to sustain itself, running on subsidies in the meantime.

Long-term, this probably wouldn't save much money as a result, but


I don't think Translink can do that. Imagine the Mayor's council discussing Translink Mall developments!

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Ditto!!! Doug had no intention of running until he was pulled from retirement to try and boot the group of shysters called Surrey First. Thank goodness he won but I hope he doesn't do stupid stuff over the next 4 years.

He is starting to do some stuff like that, from gutting the Cloverdale ice arenas and the Grandview Heights community centre and library.

[Bombaman]

The original poster suggested voting in an idiot in just for the sake of changing the mayor or council. Do you think that's a smart move? I see your type too. Call someone out for telling out the truth. Mr. hypocrite.

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i see your type. if someone disagrees with you they are uneducated, idiots, etc. let me guess, you also call people racists, xenophobes, etc. if they disagree with your opinion that to.



must be a troll paid for by the BIA's in Surrey as that would be the only logical reasoning for your opinions and insults.

[Bombaman]

He also wants to replace the RCMP with municipal force. We should expect more to come, he has only been into the office for about one and a half month right now.

Originally Posted by BirchTrain

He is starting to do some stuff like that, from gutting the Cloverdale ice arenas and the Grandview Heights community centre and library.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Bombaman

The original poster suggested voting in an idiot in just for the sake of changing the mayor or council. Do you think that's a smart move? I see your type too. Call someone out for telling out the truth. Mr. hypocrite.

Ad hominems just make you’re arguments less credible. Would you rather keep Surrey First and make Surrey the laughingstock of the region because of these guys?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Bombaman

The original poster suggested voting in an idiot in just for the sake of changing the mayor or council. Do you think that's a smart move? I see your type too. Call someone out for telling out the truth. Mr. hypocrite.

I'm not sure you understand what hypocrite means - it's not a catch-all term for anybody that has a problem with your argument.

And you're telling your truth. A different truth is that Surrey First was obsessed with a vanity project that was going to do none of things they wanted it to do and was actually going to mess up their constituency for decades to come. Most residents saw through that, and were willing to elect anyone who promised otherwise.

[Bombaman]

Surrey first actually did a good job in transforming the Surrey city center, it's fine if you guys don't agree. As I know, Mccallum and co. are making Surrey the laughing stock of Metro Vancouver right now. Of course, you do not have to agree.

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Ad hominems just make you’re arguments less credible. Would you rather keep Surrey First and make Surrey the laughingstock of the region because of these guys?

[Migrant_Coconut]

No, city planning takes about 20-30 years to fully materialize; Surrey Central's development is actually McCallum's planning from the 80s and 90s. Even Shift admits that.

Well, at least you didn't cite Twitter. Still, it's a pretty bad idea to spend 10-20 minutes digging up Facebook posts, because it's easy to spend as much time going through Surrey First's peanut gallery and finding much more ridicule per minute.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Bombaman

Surrey first actually did a good job in transforming the Surrey city center, it's fine if you guys don't agree. As I know, Mccallum and co. are making Surrey the laughing stock of Metro Vancouver right now. Of course, you do not have to agree.

If Surrey First puts the LRT on the roads, where there would've been frequent accidents and poor service resulting from said accidents, then they are no better than McCallum. It would've been the biggest boondoggle since the Fast Ferries.

[Bombaman]

Shift had never said Surrey Central's development was because of McCallum's planning. Please don't put words into other people's month. I have to show you who is the laughing stock because some of you seems to refuse a reality check. It's okay, I don't want to bring other people into this, if you believe McCallum is the right choice, then he is the right choice in your view. XD

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

No, city planning takes about 20-30 years to fully materialize; Surrey Central's development is actually McCallum's planning from the 80s and 90s. Even Shift admits that.

Well, at least you didn't cite Twitter. Still, it's a pretty bad idea to spend 10-20 minutes digging up Facebook posts, because it's easy to spend as much time going through Surrey First's peanut gallery and finding much more ridicule per minute.

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

If Surrey First puts the LRT on the roads, where there would've been frequent accidents and poor service resulting from said accidents, then they are no better than McCallum. It would've been the biggest boondoggle since the Fast Ferries.

McCallum promised SkyTrain, which is why people voted for him. Perhaps some just wanted change and McCallum seemed to be the one to do it, so they voted for him.

Also probably it’s best to blur out the names if you are posting Facebook comments on here.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Bombaman

Swift had never said Surrey Central's development was because of McCallum's planning. Please don't put words into other people's month. I have to show you who is the laughing stock because some of you seems to refuse a reality check. It's okay, I don't want to bring other people into this, if you believe McCallum is the right choice, then he is the right choice in your view. XD

Shift, not Swift. Come on, it's only five letters.

Originally Posted by Shift

The thing with Planning is that it doesnt materialize overnight:

• 2010-2020 Planning initiatives/decisions that happened during Surrey First will materialize in Surrey in the 2020's - 40's.
  
• The current face of Surrey is the result of Planning from the 1980's - 1990's (Bob Bose, Doug McCallum eras and prior), and the fact that it was very much smaller, suburban bedroom community back then in a region with nearly 1 million less people. The region's population is only now at a point where there is demand for Surrey to begin to density. Also Planning in the 80's / 90's was much different everywhere - not just a Surrey thing.

Current Surrey Planning is quite progressive and leading if you compare with Suburbs elsewhere in North America. Plans take time to materialize.

Coming from someone who doesn't even know how to put the reply under the quote, being called a laughingstock is a pretty high compliment.

McCallum's hardly without flaws, but he promised to get rid of the light rail plan, and that's how he won. I suspect that Surrey would've voted for Rollergirl or the guy with the Hitler stache if they'd promised SkyTrain.