General Updates and News

[DigitalNinja]

I assume this would be the Seapoint and the yellow future development tower as inicated on the website:

http://thehazelton.ca/neighborhood/

Looks like there is also another commercial building confirmed "ML One Ltd" No idea what that is.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

I assume this would be the Seapoint and the yellow future development tower as inicated on the website:

http://thehazelton.ca/neighborhood/

Looks like there is also another commercial building confirmed "ML One Ltd" No idea what that is.

Drove by last night and there is construction equipment on site for the two buildings on the northern end of the site.

ML One Ltd is short for Magazine Landing. It is a three storey commercial development for the Pita Pit / Starbucks parking lot.

[someone123]

$10M of federal and provincial funding has been announced for the cultural space in the former convention centre: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/12/...ion-arts-centre-in-downtown-halifax.html

Seems pretty likely to happen now.

This also seems like one of those projects where the city is being asked to kick in a little bit of money ($1M) as part of a much larger overall investment ($13M).

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

$10M of federal and provincial funding has been announced for the cultural space in the former convention centre: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/12/...ion-arts-centre-in-downtown-halifax.html

Seems pretty likely to happen now.

This also seems like one of those projects where the city is being asked to kick in a little bit of money ($1M) as part of a much larger overall investment ($13M).

Seems like a good deal for the city - a $13M project for $1.3M of investment.

[kph06]

A new 6 story building is going up on Prince Street in downtown Dartmouth.

I hear the crane went up today, Alderney Hearing had a photo yesterday on instagram:

Alderney Hearing

[kph06]

Tim Rissesco had a photo on twitter:

Tim Rissesco

Looks like a new to Halifax Crane. It looks to be remotely operated, no cab at the boom.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Seems like a good deal for the city - a $13M project for $1.3M of investment.

Not such a good deal for taxpayers who are footing almost the entire bill for a very fringe project that few will use.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Not such a good deal for taxpayers who are footing almost the entire bill for a very fringe project that few will use.

A general statement with no data to back it up.

Everybody benefits from the arts. Even people who have no interest in the arts benefit through living in a society with more depth.

People who attend movies, concerts, dance performances and theatrical events are hardly considered the "fringe", nor are the people who perform or produce such events for that matter.

"Few will use" is a meaningless statement with zero research or fact to back it up. How do you know how many will use it?

I'm an average citizen who is not involved with the arts community but I will attend a concert or other event there if they interest me, and I will gladly pay money to attend. Based on that, I will also happily allow the infinitesimal portion of my federal and provincial taxes paid in to help fund it. The city gets in for 10¢ on the dollar, so that seems like a good deal for the great majority of us in the city who attend entertainment events.

As a financial/business person, I don't know why you would be against this as I'm sure you are aware that the tax dollars that you give to the feds regularly fund expensive projects in other parts of the country that you will see no benefit from. Why not have some of that federal money that the current government is splashing around, actually come to Halifax??

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

A general statement with no data to back it up.

Everybody benefits from the arts. Even people who have no interest in the arts benefit through living in a society with more depth.

People who attend movies, concerts, dance performances and theatrical events are hardly considered the "fringe", nor are the people who perform or produce such events for that matter.

"Few will use" is a meaningless statement with zero research or fact to back it up. How do you know how many will use it?

I'm an average citizen who is not involved with the arts community but I will attend a concert or other event there if they interest me, and I will gladly pay money to attend. Based on that, I will also happily allow the infinitesimal portion of my federal and provincial taxes paid in to help fund it. The city gets in for 10¢ on the dollar, so that seems like a good deal for the great majority of us in the city who attend entertainment events.

As a financial/business person, I don't know why you would be against this as I'm sure you are aware that the tax dollars that you give to the feds regularly fund expensive projects in other parts of the country that you will see no benefit from. Why not have some of that federal money that the current government is splashing around, actually come to Halifax??

To start with, "few will use" is no more meaningless than "everybody benefits from the arts". Ask the person on social assistance or one whose kids are going hungry how the arts benefits them.

Let's be clear, this is a gift to Armco and George Armoyan. He took the WTCC building off the province's hands. This is them kicking some of that back to him. As for the fed contribution, ask Andy Fillmore, as he seems to be the kingmaker here.

The arts are very much a creature of govt these days. The only way most performing artists make a living is via govt funding of some sort or another. They almost never pay their own way because if something becomes too popular, it is no longer considered "art" and is looked down upon by the arts community as pop culture entertainment.

As for being grateful for a few federal crumbs, this province has been going broke for years chasing 33- or 50-cent dollars dangled in front of us by the feds. That syndrome has led to lots of unnecessary projects being pursued. This is just the latest example.

[JET]

Originally Posted by kph06

A new 6 story building is going up on Prince Street in downtown Dartmouth.

I hear the crane went up today, Alderney Hearing had a photo yesterday on instagram:

Alderney Hearing

Where on Prince Street?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

As for being grateful for a few federal crumbs, this province has been going broke for years chasing 33- or 50-cent dollars dangled in front of us by the feds. That syndrome has led to lots of unnecessary projects being pursued. This is just the latest example.

Very true.

The feds love trotting out their 50% contributions to local projects, but what happens when the province can't afford their 50% portion of the cost???

The classic example right now is the $130M boondoggle of the Francophonie Games in Moncton/Dieppe (where the cost has suddenly inflated from $17M).

Dominic LeBlanc is trying to take the moral high ground, extolling the fact the feds would pitch in 50% ($65M), but this would still mean the province would also have to contribute $65M. This at a time when Premier Higgs is lopping off $250M in infrastructure spending promised by former Premier Gallant in order to balance the books.

LeBlanc's righteous cries for NB to "take ownership of their responsibility" to the games sounds pretty hollow right now.

I think NB should follow the lead of Halifax on this project and cancel them, just like Halifax did with the Commonwealth Games.

For an impoverished province, 50% is still a lot of money...........

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

To start with, "few will use" is no more meaningless than "everybody benefits from the arts".

Not even close to being the same thing. Yours is a prediction that is impossible to prove, mine is a statement that you can observe daily, just ask someone what their favorite song or movie is... you will almost always get an answer - that is a very simple sign that people in society are benefiting from the arts - it goes much deeper than that but no point in explaining. "Few will use" is wishful thinking on your part, but has no basis.

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Ask the person on social assistance or one whose kids are going hungry how the arts benefits them.

That's kind of a foolish statement. Ask those same people about any money that the government spends that does not directly put food on their table and a roof over their heads and you will get the same answer. "Hey, would you rather that the city buys up houses to widen Chebucto Road or uses that money to give your family more money for food?"... how do you think they would answer?

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Let's be clear, this is a gift to Armco and George Armoyan. He took the WTCC building off the province's hands. This is them kicking some of that back to him. As for the fed contribution, ask Andy Fillmore, as he seems to be the kingmaker here.

Really? Got a source for that?

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The arts are very much a creature of govt these days. The only way most performing artists make a living is via govt funding of some sort or another. They almost never pay their own way because if something becomes too popular, it is no longer considered "art" and is looked down upon by the arts community as pop culture entertainment.

Which performing artists are you talking about that get all that government funding? There are a lot of bands that would like a piece of that pie...

Originally Posted by Keith P.

As for being grateful for a few federal crumbs, this province has been going broke for years chasing 33- or 50-cent dollars dangled in front of us by the feds. That syndrome has led to lots of unnecessary projects being pursued. This is just the latest example.

I won't argue that you don't have a point here. Can you state some examples?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

For an impoverished province, 50% is still a lot of money...........

One thing to keep in mind that is different about government projects is that governments may recover a large portion of their spending through taxes. This could be 5-50%. It's also possible for projects to generate economic growth. The government might ultimately collect 150% of the cost of a really good project in the long run (probably not so much for sports but I bet some public health initiatives and the like have paid off by huge multiples.. I am thinking of programs like polio vaccination).

Government spending isn't really a budgeting exercise. It is more like an optimization problem with a bunch of feedback loops. You want to speed up the economy by spending, so you can get more money and spend more, but while keeping priorities in order (environment, quality of life). Most household budgets are different in that they have fairly fixed income.

I don't know what the specifics are for these games in NB but "we are paying 50%" is an incomplete picture.

My impression in NS is that the province is generally too conservative when it comes to investing in infrastructure in the city. It's unclear that if these projects get killed government spending goes down. There is always somebody lobbying for provincial dollars. We are spending more and more of our money on entitlements that probably aren't growing the economy much.

[MonctonRad]

I know what you are trying to say, and I agree with you in part, but at least as far as the Francophonie Games are concerned, this is a one time event, with very little legacy infrastructure spending. It's not like the IAAF track & field championships that gave Moncton the sports stadium we have at UdeM. There will be no long term benefit to holding these games.

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread.......

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread.......

Hey, I didn't think it was possible to hijack a 'general' thread!

[kph06]

Originally Posted by JET

Where on Prince Street?

This lot

[pblaauw]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

To start with, "few will use" is no more meaningless than "everybody benefits from the arts". Ask the person on social assistance or one whose kids are going hungry how the arts benefits them.

Art lifts my spirit. As someone with a physical disability, as well as moderate depression and (occasionally quite severe) anxiety, I appreciate the ability to spend a few bucks now and then, to go to a museum or art gallery, or *gasp* a library (a pet favourite of yours, I know). It's also a much more productive way to spend a few hours out of the cold (I have little to no feeling below my knees and very poor circulation below my right knee.), instead of loafing about at the mall or McDonald's.

Of course, we could all go back to the 60s, when people like me were institutionalised. I bet you'd like that.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by pblaauw

Art lifts my spirit. As someone with a physical disability, as well as moderate depression and (occasionally quite severe) anxiety, I appreciate the ability to spend a few bucks now and then, to go to a museum or art gallery, or *gasp* a library (a pet favourite of yours, I know). It's also a much more productive way to spend a few hours out of the cold (I have little to no feeling below my knees and very poor circulation below my right knee.), instead of loafing about at the mall or McDonald's.

Of course, we could all go back to the 60s, when people like me were institutionalised. I bet you'd like that.

I'll ignore your last comment rather than report it.

You wouldn't be able to use this new place. The performance hall is only for standees, no seats. Therefore unless it is some raver indie band with an audience of sub-25 year-olds most people would not want to attend. Most of the rest is for artsy types to use in their creative endeavors - think of a Khyber clubhouse on steroids.

It is not something with broad appeal and few members of the public will ever set foot inside.

Constantly wasting money on things like this is why govt never has enough money to spend on services and facilities for people like you who really could use those things to improve their lives.

[Colin May]

It is part of the 2019 federal Liberal re-election campaign. Similar small cost project announcements are taking place across the country. Quite a smart strategy, lots of local press coverage of announcements by a local MP and cements support in the groups who would usually lean Liberal or NDP and also serves as a reminder that a vote for the NDP is a wasted voted or a dangerous vote which could lead to a Tory win.

[IanWatson]

The biggest problems I see with $0.50 dollars are on infrastructure that local governments end up owning, because those come with maintenance and replacement costs down the road. I'm talking things like roads and sewers. In the 70s the feds threw around a lot of $0.50 dollars for sewers in small communities and many of them got built in areas with a questionable need. And guess what, here we are 50 years on (about the average lifespan for a sewer) and small communities all over Atlantic Canada are facing extreme financial strain from the liability of replacing these sewers. It's not the up-front cost of infrastructure that's expensive, it's maintenance. But maintenance isn't sexy so there are never any dollars for that.

However, that's not the case here. As a municipality, we're getting $0.10 dollars and no responsibility to maintain it. And it may be the case that it's a backdoor handout to Armco, but it does make use of a useless building downtown, and provides the public with a much needed facility.