General Updates and News

[jacob.ritchie]

You are correct. There is an axis from Chebucto Landing (by the Ferry Terminal, with the clock) up George Street and through Grand Parade to Argyle that needs consideration (and partnership with PNS, and $). This was always in the Captial District plan ... the connection from Grand Parade to Spring Garden Road (via Grafton/Argyle) would help stitch together our major public spaces in the Downtown (Victoria Park, Public Gardens, Public Library, Grand Parade, Waterfront, Ferry Terminal) as well as provide a means to connect to the great peninsula (Commons, Young Avenue, Point Pleasant Park).

[jacob.ritchie]

The cul-de-sac is actually a wharf that was built to provide fire and emergency access to the new ferry terminal when it was built in the eighties ... everything below that concrete - right from where the "bulb" starts - is a steel/concrete wharf deck. Its pretty cool under there ... but it wasn't designed for people/pedestrians/waterfront activity, it was designed for car access.

Originally Posted by someone123

Bad urban design:

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6488088,...nQKw6Lx76D662ruIxMyMw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This end of Argyle needs a do-over too. Eventually, this quasi-pedestrian area should connect down through the Grand Parade to the Province House area and onto the waterfront via George Street. The Dockyard Clock area needs an overhaul too.

The little cul-de-sac is pointless. Why not make this a place for people to spend time rather than park their vehicles (go park at the other end that is half surface lots) or spin around when they are lost? The urban realm here is ugly and there is nothing to draw visitors up from the waterfront: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6494283,...1nFXkgPBHwD7HpDLOtwOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by jacob.ritchie

The cul-de-sac is actually a wharf that was built to provide fire and emergency access to the new ferry terminal when it was built in the eighties ... everything below that concrete - right from where the "bulb" starts - is a steel/concrete wharf deck. Its pretty cool under there ... but it wasn't designed for people/pedestrians/waterfront activity, it was designed for car access.

I believe the cul-de-sac would have been a continuation of the drop-off point for ferry passengers. IIRC, when the new ferry terminal was built the waterfront hadn't developed as a tourist site to the point that it is today, so it made sense to keep it open to car access for that function. I assume they would continue to keep it available not only for fire access, but for such things as Access-A-Bus as well.

It's still a nice spot, and whether one agrees with the impromptu motorcycle show that seems to develop on summer evenings or not, I haven't seen the existence of the cu-de-sac as a problem.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It's still a nice spot, and whether one agrees with the impromptu motorcycle show that seems to develop on summer evenings or not, I haven't seen the existence of the cu-de-sac as a problem.

The question I would ask isn't whether or not it's nice (though I think that's debatable), it's whether the city is getting the most mileage out of one of its prime sites.

Here's a concept for the site from Breakhouse:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/1941103/WDCL-Urban-Suite-Proposal

There were a few different designs like this. I wonder if they were shelved because of Queen's Marque?

[Keith P.]

I fail to see how putting a building there adds anything to the public space. It essentially wipes it out.

[IanWatson]

Waterfront Development (sorry, Develop NS) has looked at that space before. My guess is if they do anything it'll be after Queen's Marque is done so it could be done in conjunction with the space between Queen's Marque and the NS Crystal building.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

The question I would ask isn't whether or not it's nice (though I think that's debatable), it's whether the city is getting the most mileage out of one of its prime sites.

Here's a concept for the site from Breakhouse:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/1941103/WDCL-Urban-Suite-Proposal

There were a few different designs like this. I wonder if they were shelved because of Queen's Marque?

I actually don't like that proposal, as appears that it would make the area feel somewhat cluttered or a little claustrophobic, especially once Queen's Marque is in place.

It's also not clear what the function of that building would be - is it office space? Residential? How does it improve the enjoyment of the area for the public?

I honestly feel it's beneficial to leave some open spaces around the waterfront, and to actually allow some spaces where people can see the harbour when they are not just at the water's edge.

IMHO not every open space needs to have a building on it...

[jacob.ritchie]

Thats just one image though ... there were three full proposals that were solicited ... they were presented at the AGNS ... one from Ekistics (Rob Leblanc), one from WHW (John Crace), and that Breakhouse one ... which was a Breakhouse/TEAL collabo ... they were all on the WDCL owned parcel (NS Crystal) and didn't stretch over to the Chebucto Landing PID.

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I actually don't like that proposal, as appears that it would make the area feel somewhat cluttered or a little claustrophobic, especially once Queen's Marque is in place.

It's also not clear what the function of that building would be - is it office space? Residential? How does it improve the enjoyment of the area for the public?

I honestly feel it's beneficial to leave some open spaces around the waterfront, and to actually allow some spaces where people can see the harbour when they are not just at the water's edge.

IMHO not every open space needs to have a building on it...

[jacob.ritchie]

... which means no impact on the public space available ... as they shared the footprint of the NS Crystal building PID(s) ...

it was a conceptual effort ... not fully fleshed out buildings or proformas ... the WHW proposal had quite a lot of water opened up .. the Breakhouse / TEAL one had a strawberry field on the roof ...

Originally Posted by jacob.ritchie

Thats just one image though ... there were three full proposals that were solicited ... they were presented at the AGNS ... one from Ekistics (Rob Leblanc), one from WHW (John Crace), and that Breakhouse one ... which was a Breakhouse/TEAL collabo ... they were all on the WDCL owned parcel (NS Crystal) and didn't stretch over to the Chebucto Landing PID.

[someone123]

My point wasn't really that there would be more or less space. It's just interesting to see what ideas people came up with.

They kinda put the aggregate concrete cul-de-sac and strange postmodern clock tower into perspective. Hopefully one day the law courts and old ferry terminal will be replaced and something more ambitious can be done with the area.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Thanks for the perspective. The details weren't abundantly clear to me, but in fairness I rushed through the document and took it in context of replacing the cul-de-sac with another building. Perhaps if I had studied it properly that might have been more obvious.

I don't disagree with the concept, but I still think it's important to maintain some kind of access to the ferry terminal, especially for those who are mobility-restricted. Not to mention access for fire fighting equipment.

And I will always agree that the best thing that could be done with that area of the waterfront would be to replace the law courts building at least, with something better. I don't think that the ferry terminal is such a bad building, in fact I think it would seem much better if there were some space on the west side (i.e. current law courts building removed) to alleviate the concrete corridor feeling that exists now.

[someone123]

A rendering for the performing arts facility:


More information: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/11/...ld-cost-halifax-taxpayers-1-million.html

Looks like essentially the same urban design flaws of the current building but rendered in a more modern style.

[Keith P.]

That is a building that should be gutted or knocked down. Such a bad design, as is typical of govt building projects.

[jacob.ritchie]

This renovation proposal reminds me of when MT&T renovated the WOLCO at Scotia Square ... they added that piece that juts out above the entrance at NW corner of Duke/Barrington

Originally Posted by someone123

A rendering for the performing arts facility:


More information: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/11/...ld-cost-halifax-taxpayers-1-million.html

Looks like essentially the same urban design flaws of the current building but rendered in a more modern style.

[HalifaxRetales]

The "Bell Lofts" on Wentworth is now the Tel Lofts
http://tellofts.com/

[hokus83]

Originally Posted by someone123

A rendering for the performing arts facility:


More information: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/11/...ld-cost-halifax-taxpayers-1-million.html

Looks like essentially the same urban design flaws of the current building but rendered in a more modern style.

I don't think anything can make this building not awful looking

[ns_kid]

I didn't realize that, according to the rendering, part of the city's $1 million contribution will apparently go to leveling the former Homburg Building and Citadel Hill. Nice work!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hokus83

I don't think anything can make this building not awful looking

And the worst part is that it combines bad exterior design with a horrible interior functional design. The more one considers the many problems, the more sense it makes to gut or demolish the thing.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

I didn't realize that, according to the rendering, part of the city's $1 million contribution will apparently go to leveling the former Homburg Building and Citadel Hill. Nice work!

Looks like the Prince George and all of the streetside light poles will be gone as well!

Big project!

[someone123]

Apparently the ground breaking for Harbour Isle towers 2 and 3 happened recently.