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  #2441  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2018, 6:51 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Yet another competition? And we will be down to one bidder, like the earlier competition, that yielded one bidder, Claridge.

I fear that we are heading for another soulless 21st century development, that none of us will want to visit.
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  #2442  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2018, 8:32 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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I don't see why the NCC couldn't work with DEVCOR to fine-tune their original proposal to come up with an "upgraded" or updated master plan...

I mean, at first it was a competition, so both teams sort of came up with a proposal and it was a shot in the dark. Now that the designs were unveiled and all, if Melnyk's team can't get anything done, I don't see why DEVCOR couldn't take charge with some adjustments from the NCC and the public. I'm sure it's not a "take it or leave it" proposal. If we want to reduce some wide plazas, and change a few of their "star attractions" to more realistic/liveable uses, then I'm sure they would be open to the idea in order to win the rights to develop the land.

No?
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  #2443  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2018, 8:47 PM
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As runner-up DCDLS deserves the chance to negotiate with the NCC as soon as if RVL is officially buried. That includes having the chance to fine tune their proposal wherever the NCC deems it necessary.
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  #2444  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
I don't see why the NCC couldn't work with DEVCOR to fine-tune their original proposal to come up with an "upgraded" or updated master plan...

I mean, at first it was a competition, so both teams sort of came up with a proposal and it was a shot in the dark. Now that the designs were unveiled and all, if Melnyk's team can't get anything done, I don't see why DEVCOR couldn't take charge with some adjustments from the NCC and the public. I'm sure it's not a "take it or leave it" proposal. If we want to reduce some wide plazas, and change a few of their "star attractions" to more realistic/liveable uses, then I'm sure they would be open to the idea in order to win the rights to develop the land.

No?
Agree 100%
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  #2445  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2018, 10:09 PM
SkeggsEggs SkeggsEggs is offline
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The Devcore plan has far too many attractions, but the RVL plan has far too many condos. I think they should be able to negotiate with the NCC if the RVL plan is truly dead. We may end up with a best of both worlds solution that incorporates aspects of both plans. Covering the LRT for example should be maintained.
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  #2446  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2018, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ars View Post
JP Poulin(president of DEVCORE) was on TSN1200 and CFRA580 this morning, it was quite an interesting conversation:

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/pou...-does-not-require-public-money-1.1219937

http://www.iheartradio.ca/580-cfra/podca...president-1.8594578?mode=Article.8594578

- Ready for shovels in the ground as soon as possible
- No public money involved
- Will set aside land for Melnyk or whoever it is that owns the Sens to build an arena
I wish someone in the media would ask where the money is. Are the billionaires funding the attractions as a philanthropic activity? If they are the lack of any statements from any of the billionaires is odd.
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  #2447  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2018, 11:20 PM
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What I find interesting is that, except for the French School board (which acquired a site on Preston) none of the other “proponents” has shown any interest in pursuing their proposed venues. There is lots of land around Lebreton not included in the NCC competition and lots of other potential sites.
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  #2448  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2018, 11:41 PM
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Based on the CBC report, it seems like DCDLS wants to pick up where RVL left off, so build there plan? It's not super clear.
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  #2449  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 4:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Sorry, but the shops and restaurants can only come when there is sufficient local population and other public attractions in the area. They cannot precede the rest of the development. And we don't want parking lots on site that will take decades to get rid of.
Except there's already thousands of people living within walking distance of LeBreton. The LRT will also make it accessible to tens of thousands more, on par with getting to the Rideau Centre or St Laurent. This isn't some far flung location, it's as central as it gets. I doubt this area will lay fallow for long, in fact if it is divided up into smaller parcels for multiple developers, it might just accelerate it being built up with competition instead of one company sitting on the land waiting for their phases to sell sequentially.

The biggest potential for LeBreton to me is the possibility of re-melding the CBD with the near west end, a psychological link that was severed when the streetcars stopped running and then the place was bulldozed. I would love to see the day when there might be a contiguous pedestrian axis where I could leisurely walk from Hintonburg to Sparks and Rideau, and if I get tired I could just hop back on a train.

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  #2450  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 3:47 PM
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Except there's already thousands of people living within walking distance of LeBreton. The LRT will also make it accessible to tens of thousands more, on par with getting to the Rideau Centre or St Laurent. This isn't some far flung location, it's as central as it gets. I doubt this area will lay fallow for long, in fact if it is divided up into smaller parcels for multiple developers, it might just accelerate it being built up with competition instead of one company sitting on the land waiting for their phases to sell sequentially.

The biggest potential for LeBreton to me is the possibility of re-melding the CBD with the near west end, a psychological link that was severed when the streetcars stopped running and then the place was bulldozed. I would love to see the day when there might be a contiguous pedestrian axis where I could leisurely walk from Hintonburg to Sparks and Rideau, and if I get tired I could just hop back on a train.

Yes, we need to reconnect and re-invigorate the downtown to Lebreton Flats connection especially for pedestrians and cyclists and even a connection to Wellington West, a great place for a possible pedestrian bridge. It's been something like 50 years since the Wellington viaduct was torn down.
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  #2451  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
Except there's already thousands of people living within walking distance of LeBreton. The LRT will also make it accessible to tens of thousands more, on par with getting to the Rideau Centre or St Laurent. This isn't some far flung location, it's as central as it gets. I doubt this area will lay fallow for long, in fact if it is divided up into smaller parcels for multiple developers, it might just accelerate it being built up with competition instead of one company sitting on the land waiting for their phases to sell sequentially.

The biggest potential for LeBreton to me is the possibility of re-melding the CBD with the near west end, a psychological link that was severed when the streetcars stopped running and then the place was bulldozed. I would love to see the day when there might be a contiguous pedestrian axis where I could leisurely walk from Hintonburg to Sparks and Rideau, and if I get tired I could just hop back on a train.

I like this. I think if this happens (pedestrian linkages and the Aqueduct being publically developed) private development in the rest of the area will follow.
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  #2452  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 5:54 PM
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NHL's Bettman 'disappointed' RendezVous LeBreton plan is on the verge of collapse

By: The Canadian Press
Published: Dec 3, 2018 10:58pm EST


Gary Bettman isn't concerned the development deal that would have included a new downtown arena for the Ottawa Senators is falling apart.

The NHL commissioner is, however, lamenting the plan that, as it stands now, appears to be dead.

"I would say I'm more disappointed with how this played out," Bettman said Monday at the NHL board of governors meetings. "But these are complicated matters."

Senators owner Eugene Melnyk is suing business partner John Ruddy for $700 million over the proposed LeBreton Flats project that would’ve seen the consortium develop a series of public spaces alongside residential offerings, as well as a new home for the Sens.

The statement of claim alleges their companies were unable to finalize a master development agreement and that there were "a number of breaches, all arising out of a conflict of interest, that directly resulted in the failure of the partnership."

The Senators have played in Kanata’s Canadian Tire Centre since 1996. Attendance has dropped dramatically in recent years, including a crowd of less than 11,000 at a recent game.

"For a whole host of reasons it would be nice (to have a downtown arena)," Bettman said. "But Mr. Melnyk has said if he has to make Canadian Tire Centre work, he can do that.

"Let's not draw any conclusions yet. This is a complicated situation, although in its original form, for a lot of reasons, some of which you've read in the complaint that's been filed, the project as originally envisioned unfortunately isn't viable."

Deputy commissioner Bill Daly said the league shares Melnyk's view that Canadian Tire Centre can still work as a viable NHL venue.

"He's the owner of the franchise and you have to defer to his local expertise," Daly said. "If he feels like he can make it work there long term, we'll certainly support that."

Devcore Canderel DLS Group, which was beaten out by Melnyk and Ruddy to develop LeBreton Flats in 2016, said in a statement Sunday it remains ready to take over the project should the current agreement be terminated.

DCDLS added its plan continues to include an NHL arena.

"Our team has the expertise, experience and the financial resources that are necessary to deliver a world-class project," the statement from Devcore president Jean-Pierre Poulin read. "We do not believe Ottawa or Canada should be held hostage one day longer."

Melnyk is not at the board of governors meetings being held at a posh resort on Georgia's coast, but Bettman said the NHL is willing to help with the process of getting a new arena built any way it can.

"There are some places where we have been involved in (and) I think (been) very constructive – Edmonton, Pittsburgh, among others come to mind," he said. "There have been other places where we've been dis-invited by one of the participants.

"We don't like to go where we're not welcome if it's not going to be helpful."

– With files from OBJ staff

https://obj.ca/article/nhls-bettman-disappointed-rendezvous-lebreton-plan-verge-collapse
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  #2453  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 5:56 PM
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LeBreton: the options on the table

James Bagnall, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: December 4, 2018


The National Capital Commission has one more chance to get the LeBreton Flats project right following the eruption of a legal war between Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk and Trinity Development founder John Ruddy.

The businessmen are partners in RendezVous LeBreton, which two-and-a-half years ago became the NCC’s preferred bidder to effect a $4-billion transformation of the historic downtown site.

All day Monday, these and dozens of other parties with an interest in helping to remake LeBreton, were busy working out the many permutations available to the NCC. Among the latter: starting anew with a fresh procurement; launching direct negotiations with Devcore Canderel DLS — the runner-up in the 2016 contest to produce a vision for LeBreton Flats — and mixing and matching partners that might be compatible with either Melnyk or Ruddy.

“At this stage we’re not talking about new partnerships,” said Jean-Pierre Poulin, president of Gatineau-based Devcore and spokesperson for the runner-up group, “It’s us or the other team”.

The NCC has given Melnyk and Ruddy until the last week of January “to get their act together”. The temptation for the federal government to try to broker a deal remains strong. The Liberals don’t want to head into next October’s federal election with LeBreton Flats unresolved — not when they will also have to wear most of the failure for the Phoenix pay system fiasco.

In any case, the NCC and RendezVous LeBreton have already invested millions of dollars to lay the groundwork for a community that would eventually include 4,400 residential units, 800 hotel rooms, 1.5 million square feet of office space, 1.3 million square feet of retail outlets and, of course, the signature NHL arena. The thought of starting over again must be deflating.

But after Melnyk sued Ruddy on Nov. 23 for allegedly undermining their joint effort, the idea that RendezVous LeBreton will soon be able to get on with the project is a long shot.

In which case, what then?

Devcore — which heads a consortium of Montreal and Ottawa money and expertise — has declared it is willing to step in immediately.

Which sounds like a wonderful quick fix — until you consider a couple of pieces of reality. First, it’s not clear that the NCC will be able to start those talks without first conducting some sort of competition, not least because it’s been years since the Crown agency last analyzed Devcore’s bid. Not only that, the economics of the LeBreton project have also changed since 2016, most notably the costs of building the various public venues.

The second piece of reality for Devcore concerns the NCC’s five-member evaluation committee, which included chief executive Mark Kristmanson. The evaluators two years ago ranked RendezVous LeBreton’s 2,000-page bid “clearly” ahead of Devcore’s proposal.

The precise failings of Devcore’s bid haven’t been made public, but a source familiar with the NCC’s evaluation said the inclusion of an assortment of odd projects with uncertain economics — wind tunnel, skateboard park, aquarium and automotive museum — was a factor.

Nevertheless, there are enough core elements in the runner-up bid to serve as a starting point should the NCC exercise its right to start the competition anew.

Certainly the Devcore group, which includes Montreal billionaires André Desmarais (Power Corp.) and Guy Laliberté (Cirque du Soleil), along with JDSU co-founder Bill Sinclair, appears to have substantial financial backing. And among its many projects is a plan for an NHL-scale arena.

The Devcore team has left things open for Melnyk who, after all, owns the NHL franchise and has real leverage here. Devcore has offered to build the arena and rent it to the Ottawa Senators, or allow Melnyk to build the rink himself. Also on the table: If Melnyk wants to sell the team, he will find a willing buyer in the Devcore group, if the price is right.

From the NCC’s perspective, a deal with Devcore would likely avoid the problem at the heart of the dispute between Melnyk and Ruddy, who is developing a separate apartment-and-retail project at 900 Albert St., just to the south of LeBreton Flats.

Melnyk claimed in his $700-million lawsuit against Ruddy that the 900 Albert St. development, which includes 1,300 apartments, would undercut demand for residential units on LeBreton Flats. These condos and other housing units are a key to financing the RendezVous LeBreton project.

“We don’t see 900 Albert as a problem for us,” said Devcore’s Poulin, “Our plan is to build 2,000-plus mixed (apartments and condos) units over a long period.” That’s less than half the number forecast to be built by the RendezVous LeBreton group, making it less likely 900 Albert would be a factor in slowing overall condo sales on the Flats.

Ruddy has yet to file a statement of defence, but a real-estate study he commissioned earlier this year by Urbanation Inc. suggested the downtown Ottawa market for rental and condo properties was strong enough to support his participation in both RendezVous LeBreton and 900 Albert.

Another option available to the NCC is to start from scratch and adopt a less risky procurement. It could do so by dividing the 53-acre parcel into multiple segments — each of which would be subject to a competition for the best ideas. NCC could set the overall direction by designating each parcel for a certain use — housing, retailing, hotels, public space. If one project fails, it won’t necessarily jeopardize development of the entire site.

The disadvantage of such an approach would be the extra time involved. “A new request for proposals would delay things by three years or more,” Poulin claims.

Against the more than 20-year horizon of the project, that doesn’t seemed exorbitant. Something more for the NCC to ponder.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/lebreton-the-options-on-the-table
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  #2454  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 10:54 PM
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So Melnyk just pocketed $21 million US from the Seattle expansion fee. That money will either be a) the injection that allows him to string this out for another year or two or b) his cue to sell and ride off into the sunset. Let’s hope for option b.
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  #2455  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 10:57 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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So Melnyk just pocketed $21 million US from the Seattle expansion fee. That money will either be a) the injection that allows him to string this out for another year or two or b) his cue to sell and ride off into the sunset. Let’s hope for option b.
How does (b) work?
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  #2456  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 11:33 PM
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How does (b) work?
He takes the money, sells the team and goes back to Barbados.
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  #2457  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 11:50 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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He takes the money, sells the team and goes back to Barbados.
Why does 11M make him more likely to want to do that?
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  #2458  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 11:53 PM
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Why does 11M make him more likely to want to do that?
It's $21 million and it's free and clear money. If he saw that the end is coming, there was a lot of incentive to wait until he got that money before selling. It's just a timing thing.

Given that he is clearly losing money on the team, the option of plowing that into operations might be less appealing than taking the cash and moving on.
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  #2459  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2018, 11:55 PM
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Please excuse my green-ness to hockey.... How would an Ottawa owner get $ from a Seattle expansion?
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  #2460  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2018, 12:10 AM
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Expansion teams need to pay a fee ($650 million US in this case) to the league. The league splits that money up and it goes to each of the teams (Vegas isn't getting a cut, as they are not participating in the expansion draft due to being too new of a team).

Also when to the teams get that money specifically? Is it now, or is it around the draft?

Last edited by corynv; Dec 5, 2018 at 12:12 AM. Reason: spelling
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