[St. John's] Transport development (Highways, Airport, and Public Transit)

[J_Murphy]

Originally Posted by Horsell

You are not missing something, that's the way it is going to be because there was nowhere they could have (without expropriation of some property) to put a proper ramp from Kenmount (heading East) to TGH (heading Northwest. There is a similar problem in the east end where you have to go through Stavanger Dr.

I can see drivers making a left turn off Kenmount onto the TGH ramp (difficult turn however) down by the Kenmount Hotel to avoid going through Kelsey Dr.

Yeah, I read it wrong initially..I can see what it means now.

[statbass]

Originally Posted by Horsell

I can see drivers making a left turn off Kenmount onto the TGH ramp (difficult turn however) down by the Kenmount Hotel to avoid going through Kelsey Dr.

Yes, very much so. There's gonna be some close calls and a few accidents, I figure. Probably to the point a concrete median will have to be placed to prevent left turns??? That section of Kenmount gets really busy, especially after Kelsey intersection lights go green.

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by Horsell

I can see drivers making a left turn off Kenmount onto the TGH ramp (difficult turn however) down by the Kenmount Hotel to avoid going through Kelsey Dr.

They are doing it now actually !

[Marty_Mcfly]

It'd be a bit silly for drivers to be doing this. I guarantee it's both quicker and easier to access TGH via Kelsey than to drive past Kelsey, down Kenmount, and then sit in traffic to make a difficult and illegal turn.

[Johnny Engine]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

It'd be a bit silly for drivers to be doing this. I guarantee it's both quicker and easier to access TGH via Kelsey than to drive past Kelsey, down Kenmount, and then sit in traffic to make a difficult and illegal turn.

Longtime lurker here and...
I was a little concerned about how this interchange would work, because Kelsey Drive has been an absolute disaster since the Gushue ramp was closed for work. The left-turning lane at Goldstone and the Gushue overpass can't be more than 20 feet long, and every afternoon the inside lane is backed up as far as the Jumping Bean. On top of that, the glut of traffic trying to turn left blocks access to Goldstone Street because the outside lane forces you to exit right onto Gushue southbound. I've recently observed people basically using that southbound ramp like a parking lot, looping in there to sneak onto Goldstone.

It's a complete mess and something really should be done about Kelsey if it is to be used that way.

[goodgrowth]

I just wonder how many cases of people driving eastbound in that area on Kenmount then wanting to go southbound on TGH there would be...

The only cases I could see is if you are car shopping/work at a dealership and live in the west end...but even then there is still Mt Carson.

[Johnny Engine]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

I just wonder how many cases of people driving eastbound in that area on Kenmount then wanting to go southbound on TGH there would be...

The only cases I could see is if you are car shopping/work at a dealership and live in the west end...but even then there is still Mt Carson.

I'll be doing that daily to get to the centre city via Brier, and avoid the bottleneck by the mall. Unless every other person in the metro area decides to do the same thing as me at once, it's guaranteed to be a smoother route.

Edit: Unless you mean going southbound from Kelsey, at the interchange I have a major gripe with. I can't imagine why anybody would need to do that.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by Johnny Engine

I'll be doing that daily to get to the centre city via Brier, and avoid the bottleneck by the mall. Unless every other person in the metro area decides to do the same thing as me at once, it's guaranteed to be a smoother route.

Edit: Unless you mean going southbound from Kelsey, at the interchange I have a major gripe with. I can't imagine why anybody would need to do that.

Wait, my mistake. It's the northbound option when travelling east on Kenmount that's gone now right? The southbound option is still there (next to Tim Hortons).

So really the nuisance would probably for those who are car shopping/work at dealerships and who live in the east end. So it might cause some more traffic on Kesley.

[Johnny Engine]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Wait, my mistake. It's the northbound option when travelling east on Kenmount that's gone now right? The southbound option is still there (next to Tim Hortons).

So really the nuisance would probably for those who are car shopping/work at dealerships and who live in the east end. So it might cause some more traffic on Kesley.

There's no might about it. Kelsey has been a mess since they closed Gushue a few months ago, and is pretty close to unusable at peak times. I'd actually recommend going down to Pippy Place, then backtracking along Goldstone for that. As someone who works in the area it's difficult to overstate how badly designed everything about the traffic flow around Kelsey is.

[statbass]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Wait, my mistake. It's the northbound option when travelling east on Kenmount that's gone now right? The southbound option is still there (next to Tim Hortons).

So really the nuisance would probably for those who are car shopping/work at dealerships and who live in the east end. So it might cause some more traffic on Kesley.

Wait a sec, I think I misunderstood here. I was thinking of traffic heading west (towards Paradise) on Kenmount and want to access the new Gushue (southbound). But a new exit onto Gushue southbound will exist from Kenmount. Street directions in this city can get confusing at times.

Welcome, Johnny Engine!

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by statbass

Wait a sec, I think I misunderstood here. I was thinking of traffic heading west (towards Paradise) on Kenmount and want to access the new Gushue (southbound). But a new exit onto Gushue southbound will exist from Kenmount. Street directions in this city can get confusing at times.

Welcome, Johnny Engine!

I believe every option except the ability to go northbound on TGH when travelling east on Kenmount is there...you'll have to use Kelsey...or Pippy -> Goldstone

[statbass]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

I believe every option except the ability to go northbound on TGH when travelling east on Kenmount is there...you'll have to use Kelsey...or Pippy -> Goldstone

I'd be nice to have that option, of course, but I don't think it's a deal breaker by any means. Access via Kelsey will not be that much longer compared to taking a left by Capital Hotel. With that being said let the left turn from Kenmount unto Gushue northbound commence (or continue for that matter)!

[Marty_Mcfly]

Yeah, eastbound Kenmount to northbound TGH is the only disallowed traffic flow right now. Kelsey/Goldstone/TGH interchange is a bit of a mess indeed, but I guess the mess is comparable to trying to turn left across Kenmount.

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

So really the nuisance would probably for those who are car shopping/work at dealerships and who live in the east end. So it might cause some more traffic on Kesley.

Don't forget you have an entire subdivision (Kenmount Terrace), which is continually expanding, and some of those residents definitely work in the East end (not to mention Mt. Pearl's divisive plans for Kenmount Hill).

I agree with what Johnny Engine stated about Goldstone ramp, particularly during rush hour, and at the end of Pippy trying to turn left, is no picnic at that hour either!

I was hoping that maybe the abundance of vehicles might diminish somewhat after TGH opening, as certainly some of that traffic originates South of Kenmount Hill via Wyatt and Mount Carson, but it's not a sure thing. I find Kelsey area chaotic at the best of times, with so many cars trying to make left turns across 4 lanes of traffic. The West side has 4 exits, and the East 3 from Walmart South.

Having said all that, I think if they could have easily made a Northbound ramp they would have. The Kelsey/Goldstone/TGH intersection needs to be reworked to make this flow smoothly.

[goodgrowth]

I don't really see a realistic place they could of put a northbound ramp for Kenmount east travellers. Looking at google maps the only place that looks like it might be possible would have been through the Fairfield Inn Hotel parking lot and then loop around Haywards funiture.

Though I'm pretty sure the hotel would not be for that...

[Kessel Run]

It could have been done with a looping overpass over the south bound Gushue lanes by Tim Hortons.

[wmemeadusjr]

The only way to fix this Kenmount east-bound to Team Gushue north-bound dilemma is the install traffic lights at the ramp by the Capital. That intersection would line up to create a 4-way with the Fairfield entrance. In an interesting note, when I walked past there, I noticed that there are traffic signal access hatches are in the ground at the corners. Maybe the city did this as a future possibility, just in case the Kelsey Drive route to the Team Gushue got too congested.

This is twice that two main routes from Kenmount do not have direct access. The other being Kenmount eastbound to Prince Phillip.

[Johnny Engine]

Originally Posted by wmemeadusjr

The only way to fix this Kenmount east-bound to Team Gushue north-bound dilemma is the install traffic lights at the ramp by the Capital. That intersection would line up to create a 4-way with the Fairfield entrance. In an interesting note, when I walked past there, I noticed that there are traffic signal access hatches are in the ground at the corners. Maybe the city did this as a future possibility, just in case the Kelsey Drive route to the Team Gushue got too congested.

This is twice that two main routes from Kenmount do not have direct access. The other being Kenmount eastbound to Prince Phillip.

That seems like the most likely thing to happen.
The Prince Philip access is weird, but at the very least the Crosbie Road access doesn't take you that far out of the way in terms of distance. In a way you could think about it as a "hidden ramp", the same way Rawlins Cross is a "hidden roundabout".

[statbass]

Originally Posted by Johnny Engine

That seems like the most likely thing to happen.
The Prince Philip access is weird, but at the very least the Crosbie Road access doesn't take you that far out of the way in terms of distance. In a way you could think about it as a "hidden ramp", the same way Rawlins Cross is a "hidden roundabout".

Dear God, not another set of traffic lights on Kenmount! It's bad enough as it is.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by Kessel Run

It could have been done with a looping overpass over the south bound Gushue lanes by Tim Hortons.

Not sure this would possible. Not enough space to implement a proper merger.