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  #2261  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 10:34 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Yes, that is part of the picture. Even if you ignore the tens of millions of ongoing operational costs and the assumption of risks by the private partners, the City spent a total of $129 million to upgrade a facility that it continues to own. That is hardly giving the private partners "hundreds of millions of dollars".
This site says 172M.


http://www.ottawalansdownepark.com/ottawa-lansdowne-background/redevelopment-project/
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  #2262  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
The NCC announced the finalists in Feb 2015, including RVL, so the partnership must have existed before that.
The competition was launched September 2014 and e found out Trinity purchased 900 Albert February 2015. So 900 Albert was in the picture at about the same time, if not before, the RVL partnership.
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  #2263  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 10:57 PM
Mr.Flintstone Mr.Flintstone is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Claridge and Windmill are not involved in a partnership. Opinions of Melnyk notwithstanding, it is a really weird situation and it puts Trinity in a significant conflict of interest. I don’t understand why there wasn’t some sort of non-compete clause in the partnership from the start.
Why I bring these developers: 1. Windmill development is a partner in the rendezvous group but also has a project near Lebreton, Zibi. 2. Claridge isn't a partner but made changes to their proposal due to everything happening at Lebreton.

So the way I see it no matter what it's going to be highly competitive area regardless of what Trinity does. And it should be it's premium downtown real estate.



The mayor office threatening during the election is interesting though.
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  #2264  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Flintstone View Post
Why I bring these developers: 1. Windmill development is a partner in the rendezvous group but also has a project near Lebreton, Zibi. 2. Claridge isn't a partner but made changes to their proposal due to everything happening at Lebreton.

So the way I see it no matter what it's going to be highly competitive area regardless of what Trinity does. And it should be it's premium downtown real estate.



The mayor office threatening during the election is interesting though.
Claridge is not a partner, they are not in a conflict of interest promoting their project.

I don’t think Windmill is involved in the development process. AFAIK they were just doing consulting.

If you and I agree to open a pizza restaurant and I announce I want to open a pizza restaurant next door, would you trust me as a partner?
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  #2265  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Claridge is not a partner, they are not in a conflict of interest promoting their project.

I don’t think Windmill is involved in the development process. AFAIK they were just doing consulting.

If you and I agree to open a pizza restaurant and I announce I want to open a pizza restaurant next door, would you trust me as a partner?
This has been mentioned several times already but the 900 Albert development started before RVL even existed in the public eye, so your example is a moot point and not applicable in this case.

It's going to be interesting to see the argument Melnyk brings forth because to me this looks like an open and shut case in favour of Trinity.
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  #2266  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
If you and I agree to open a pizza restaurant and I announce I want to open a pizza restaurant next door, would you trust me as a partner?
The question of trust isn't relevant; it's whether or not you've been damaged.

If I was in the business of opening pizza restaurants and we partnered on one, why should I be precluded from opening other restaurants, irrespective of location? I'm still invested in our partnership and have every interest in it succeeding, but you shouldn't be able to claim damage because I'm continuing to do what I do elsewhere without you.

I'm confident the courts will squish this as they should, and Melnyk will be on an island even moreso than he already is, with no other options than the obvious.
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  #2267  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 12:51 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by ars View Post
This has been mentioned several times already but the 900 Albert development started before RVL even existed in the public eye, so your example is a moot point and not applicable in this case.

It's going to be interesting to see the argument Melnyk brings forth because to me this looks like an open and shut case in favour of Trinity.
RVL was announced as a finalist the month Trinity bought the site, to the partnership almost certainly predated Trinity’s purchase of the site.
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  #2268  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 12:57 AM
LeadingEdgeBoomer LeadingEdgeBoomer is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
129 million to redevelopment the stadium and arena (TD Place) which was what Phil was writing about . 35 million for the Urban Park that the City built. The remaining 8 million was for building the trade center near the airport. Total 172 million. That is the breakdown on the web site that is referenced.
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  #2269  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 12:57 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
The question of trust isn't relevant; it's whether or not you've been damaged.

If I was in the business of opening pizza restaurants and we partnered on one, why should I be precluded from opening other restaurants, irrespective of location? I'm still invested in our partnership and have every interest in it succeeding, but you shouldn't be able to claim damage because I'm continuing to do what I do elsewhere without you.

I'm confident the courts will squish this as they should, and Melnyk will be on an island even moreso than he already is, with no other options than the obvious.
I don't think you would be too pleased if your partner opened a pizza restaurant on the same block as where you were working together to open one.
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  #2270  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 1:03 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
The question of trust isn't relevant; it's whether or not you've been damaged.

If I was in the business of opening pizza restaurants and we partnered on one, why should I be precluded from opening other restaurants, irrespective of location? I'm still invested in our partnership and have every interest in it succeeding, but you shouldn't be able to claim damage because I'm continuing to do what I do elsewhere without you.

I'm confident the courts will squish this as they should, and Melnyk will be on an island even moreso than he already is, with no other options than the obvious.
Because the 2nd person is in a conflict of interest. Are they going to put more effort into the restaurant where they get 100% of profit or the one they have to share the profit?

I share your scepticism about Melnyk”s motivation and timing. But my point is that in general it is odd to have one partner in a partnership in direct competition with the partnership. Which is why I find it weird there is no non-compete clause.
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  #2271  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 1:47 AM
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I understand Melnyk's claims of conflict of interest. I've been in partnerships before where a party was in conflict of interest and it totally pissed me off. But even if Melnyk proceeds with a different partner he still has to compete with the Trinity Centre. It's not going to go away.
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  #2272  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 1:56 AM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
At Landsdowne the city paid for 100% of the sports facilities, 50% of the parking, 100% of the amenities and handed over the land for free. I don’t think a package that generous is in order for Lebreton, but the current offer of zero isn’t going to get anything built.
I would support RVL getting the land for free, the federal government paying for public spaces (they were the ones who damaged the city by ripping out the neighbourhood and letting it sit empty for half a century, so that's the least they can do for the city), and the city giving them discounted property taxes for the first 20 years.
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  #2273  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 3:15 AM
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Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk suing partner over 'failed' downtown NHL arena bid

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: November 23, 2018


Senators owner Eugene Melnyk is accusing his LeBreton Flats business partner of leveraging the historic redevelopment to grow the allure of a nearby condo complex, while pinning the blame on John Ruddy and Trinity Developments for Ottawa residents losing out on a downtown arena and new community.

All of the behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing — the promises allegedly made, the promises allegedly broken — are contained in a staggering $700-million lawsuit filed in Ottawa court Friday by Melnyk against Ruddy, Trinity-involved companies and consultant Graham Bird.

The allegations, pitting two business moguls against each other over the transformation of the most important undeveloped land in the region, could wipe out the National Capital Commission’s latest attempt to make something happen on LeBreton Flats, which currently sits as a barren, contaminated site west of the downtown core.

Certainly, the RendezVous LeBreton Group partnership that exists today, and the immediate prospect of a downtown arena built for the Ottawa Senators, appears to be toast.

In a statement, John Ruddy said that Trinity “strongly denies” the allegations in the lawsuit and intends to vigorously defend itself.

“For over 30 years, I have sought to make a contribution to the communities in which Trinity operates, and in particular my hometown of Ottawa. I will always find ways to build Ottawa up and continue to make a contribution to our great city,” he said.

Bird, for his part, didn’t respond to requests for comment.

None of the allegations has been tested in court.

The plaintiff is Capital Sports Management Inc. (CSMI), a company that’s owned by Senators Sports and Entertainment, which owns the Ottawa Senators. Melnyk is the principal and majority owner.

Melnyk’s lawyer, Robert Brush, wouldn’t say how long the highly detailed lawsuit, which describes various meetings between Melnyk, Ruddy, the NCC and the City of Ottawa, has been in the works.

“We’re not going to litigate it in the media,” Brush said.

It was only on Thursday that the NCC revealed the problems inside the RendezVous partnership and gave Menlyk and Ruddy until the next NCC board meeting in January to finalize a governance structure.

Brush said Melnyk wasn’t doing interviews.

So, is RendezVous finished in Melnyk’s eyes?

“The claim sets out the concerns of CSMI and Mr. Melnyk, and really we have to wait and see how the process plays out,” Brush said. “I can’t say to you now one way or the other where Mr. Melnyk considers RendezVous. What we have to see is what response we get back and where things go from here.”

While people involved in the LeBreton negotiation have accused Melnyk of being the roadblock to landing a final development deal, Melnyk’s lawsuit claims he was kept in the dark about Ruddy’s development interest at 900 Albert St., across from the Bayview LRT station and near LeBreton Flats.

Trinity is part of TIP Albert GP, which last July received city council’s blessing to build a 65-storey condo complex at the high-profile junction of the municipal rail lines.

The lawsuit says Melnyk hired PricewaterhouseCoopers to look into the residential market and found the massive project at 900 Albert would “destroy the viability of the LeBreton project outright.” The market, according to the lawsuit’s description of the report, couldn’t support both projects.

The expanded 900 Albert project “destroyed the joint venture to develop LeBreton Flats,” the lawsuit says.

Melnyk accuses Ruddy and Trinity of leveraging their RendezVous joint venture and using inside information to make business decisions about 900 Albert.

“Instead, the joint venture failed because of an egregious conflict of interest on the part of Trinity and its principal John Ruddy, that ought to have been identified to CSMI and resolved but instead worsened over time,” the lawsuit says.

The acrimony between Melnyk and Ruddy has allegedly been going on for more than two years. The relationship “soured” right after the NCC named RendezVous the highest ranked candidate to take on the development in April 2016, the lawsuit says.

It was the NCC, according to the lawsuit, that approached Melnyk’s company about its interest in redeveloping LeBreton Flats, leading to Melnyk partnering with Ruddy and submitting a proposal in an NCC-led competition.

Melnyk, whose businesses run the Canadian Tire Centre and have built Sensplexes, needed a partner with residential and commercial development experience for the LeBreton bid.

Eventually, Melnyk learned about Ruddy’s development plans for 900 Albert, a triangular piece of land beside the City Centre complex, once eyed by DCR/Phoenix for a chunky office complex, but then sold to Trinity, which plotted a major transit-orientated development and attracted other investors. Melnyk, who was interested in rolling in the 900 Albert project with the LeBreton project, wanted to know why Ruddy didn’t include him in the 900 Albert investment, the lawsuit says.

Last January, Melnyk’s company said it was reconsidering its involvement in the LeBreton project, solely because of the impact of 900 Albert, the lawsuit says. The NCC “turned a blind eye” and pressured Melnyk’s company to sign the term sheet, the lawsuit says.

According to the lawsuit, the NCC announced an agreement in principle with RendezVous on the redevelopment of LeBreton Flats, despite Melnyk voicing concerns over the economic viability of the project in light of 900 Albert.

Bird and his GBA Development and Project Management company were RendezVous’s project manager. According to the suit, Melnyk fired Bird from the project, but Trinity then retained Bird as its own representatives for the development. The lawsuit alleges Bird also helped Trinity on the 900 Albert project.

The lawsuit says Trinity submitted the municipal land-use applications on behalf of RendezVous without notifying Melnyk’s company. According to the lawsuit, the development plan proposed to build the arena near 900 Albert on the western part of LeBreton Flats, instead of near the Pimisi LRT station on the eastern part.

From a legal standpoint, the lawsuit accuses Trinity of breaking a fiduciary duty allegedly owed to Melnyk’s company and not working in good faith.

“Instead, Trinity betrayed the trust of its joint venture partner by continuing to conceal, overtly and by omission, the worsening conflict when it knew or ought to have known that its conduct … would threaten and ultimately destroy the very joint venture it had agreed to advance and promote,” the lawsuit says.

The NCC said it’s not commenting on the lawsuit.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...r-failed-joint-venture-at-lebreton-flats
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  #2274  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 3:16 AM
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Ottawa Senators owner alleges mayor's office told him not to pull out of downtown deal during municipal election

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: November 23, 2018


Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson’s office threatened to cut ties with Eugene Melnyk if the Senators owner announced during the recent municipal election campaign that he was pulling out of the LeBreton Flats project, Melnyk’s lawsuit alleges.

According to the lawsuit, Melnyk’s company wrote to Watson on Sept. 17, 2018, saying it wasn’t willing to proceed with the LeBreton project until its concerns with project partner Trinity Developments were addressed.

“The mayor’s office responded with threats and intimidation,” the lawsuit says, alleging that the mayor’s chief of staff, Serge Arpin, informed the chief operating officer of Capital Sports Management Inc. (CSMI), a Melnyk company involved in the project, that “any attempt to withdraw from the LeBreton project during the current election cycle would be viewed as a direct attack on the mayor’s political career and re-election effort.”

According to the lawsuit, Melnyk’s company was warned that if it withdrew, it would result in a “severing” — that’s the word the lawsuit quotes — of any relationship between Watson and Melnyk.

It was seen by Melnyk’s side as a “veiled threat” that Watson wouldn’t support the arena and Melnyk-related projects, the lawsuit alleges.

Livia Belcea, the mayor’s press secretary, said in an email Friday that, “as the matter is before the court, Mayor Watson is unable to comment.”

None of the allegations in Melnyk’s lawsuit has been tested in court.

(The lawsuit, too, notes that Watson allegedly “favoured” other developers twice previously. It doesn’t go into detail, but Melnyk previously failed to land a casino at the Canadian Tire Centre and watched Hard Rock win the rights to build one at the Rideau Carleton Raceway. Melnyk also pursued a professional soccer franchise and stadium, but the city backed a redevelopment of Lansdowne Park).

Melnyk also alleges unreported lobbying on 900 Albert St., the future Trinity-led 65-storey tower development near LeBreton Flats.

The lawsuit alleges consultant Graham Bird, who was involved in the RendezVous project and who’s named as a defendant in Melnyk’s claim, and adviser Brendan McGuinty helped orchestrate a “political coup” by advocating Trinity’s interests at the city and with the mayor.

In an email, McGuinty said “the claim against me is 100 per cent false.”

McGuinty is not named as a defendant in Melnyk’s suit.

Bird’s company did not respond to a request for comment.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-downtown-deal-during-municipal-election
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  #2275  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 3:34 AM
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RVL was announced as a finalist the month Trinity bought the site, to the partnership almost certainly predated Trinity’s purchase of the site.
Trinity has had plans for this site since atleast early 2015(as we can see from this post on our very own forum):

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6908101&postcount=168

That's about the same time that RVL submitted their bid for Lebreton, so there's no way that Melnyk did not know about this development prior to that. RVL and Devcore were revealed as the finalists in January 2016 and RVL was chosen by the NCC in April 2016, that entire submission period was more than enough time for Melnyk to sort out any issues he had with Trinity.

As I said before, your pizza example isn't applicable here.
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  #2276  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 6:17 AM
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What if, and this is me desperately trying to find a way to ensure this deal goes through, this is a ploy by Melnyk to force Trinity to buy the Sens. The 700 million is strangely close to what Melnyk was asked to fork out for the project, and strangely close to the average price of an NHL team. Whether or not Trinity, or a combination of Trinity and other partners, have enough capital or even have a desire to own the team, is another matter.

Just seems ridiculous to kill this project for a few hundred condos out of thousands proposed all around the site. Makes absolutely no sense unless there is an end game other than spite.
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  #2277  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 6:27 AM
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Strange we've never heard from any of the other partners. You would think Mattamy and Brigil would have something to say. If anything, they would be the ones affected by the Trinity project if it really was an issue, more than Melnyk.
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  #2278  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 11:21 AM
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In the old days they would run these shysters out of town on a rail - can we run Melnyk out on an LRT?

Melnyk has to go.
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  #2279  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 12:51 PM
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In the old days they would run these shysters out of town on a rail - can we run Melnyk out on an LRT?

Melnyk has to go.
He wouldn't get very far.
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  #2280  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 12:55 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by ars View Post
Trinity has had plans for this site since atleast early 2015(as we can see from this post on our very own forum):

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6908101&postcount=168

That's about the same time that RVL submitted their bid for Lebreton, so there's no way that Melnyk did not know about this development prior to that. RVL and Devcore were revealed as the finalists in January 2016 and RVL was chosen by the NCC in April 2016, that entire submission period was more than enough time for Melnyk to sort out any issues he had with Trinity.

As I said before, your pizza example isn't applicable here.
So you’re saying SSE and Trinity formed a partnership, prepared a bid, submitted it to the NCC, had the NCC review it and announce RVL as a finalist in about a week? That is the only way your math would work. The NCC announced RVL was a finalist in Feb 2015, meaning the partnership existed before then.

Ok, if you don’t like pizza, pick an industry where it would be acceptable for one partner in a partnership to directly compete in the same location, timeframe, etc. I get that Trinity has a lot of fans because they’d say they are going to build a tall building, but it is still an unusual business practice.
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