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  #2361  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
Anyone else read the Opinion piece in Crains entitled "Amazon's HQ2 Will Help Other Cities, Too"?

The implication seems to be that Chicago is one of those second-tier cities and will only ever get second-tier jobs and pay second-tier wages. And if that be true, and you're a first-tier worker, why on Earth would you even consider staying in Chicago?

So my question is why would Crains do that?

Sounds like the editorial staff at Crains forgot to take their Prozac prescriptions. Chicago is a world class city and a great bargain still. Hope J.B. does not change that with taxes.
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  #2362  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
Anyone else read the Opinion piece in Crains entitled "Amazon's HQ2 Will Help Other Cities, Too"?

Anyone who did read it, feel like it was an argument that anyone who's actually good at their job should leave Chicago? That's how it came across to me. I'm not one who believes the local papers should be actively boosters for the City, but it might be nice if they didn't print things that are actively tearing the city down.

For those without a subscription and can't figure out how to get behind the paywall for free, here's the second paragraph:



The implication seems to be that Chicago is one of those second-tier cities and will only ever get second-tier jobs and pay second-tier wages. And if that be true, and you're a first-tier worker, why on Earth would you even consider staying in Chicago?

I don't disagree with the idea that wages will trickle down to other cities, but the timing and placement of this opinion piece seems to me to be meant to apply to Chicago. So my question is why would Crains do that?
I read this article and that wasn’t my read—at all.

They are simply saying that the high cost of talent in coastal cities will inevitably lead to overflow employment in lower cost cities. Chicago will naturally benefit from this. I didn’t see this as a knock on Chicago’s talent.

Truth is, we have top Universities in our region, the biggest issue is that we don’t have as many top paying jobs to attract the best the the brightest as NY or SF do. If we did, they would come. But companies here just don’t seem to be willing to pay top dollar, at least that’s what I seem to be hearing.

Having the second most Fortune 1000 companies in the nation means there are abundant opportunities to become obscenely wealthy here, but via a traditional path of rising up the corporate ladder. You see a lot of old people with white hair with tons of wealth in our region. What you see less of is a 20 or 30 somethings worth tens of millions. That’s something you see more of on the coasts, and I think the younger generation finds that more appealing these days.
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  #2363  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I read this article and that wasn’t my read—at all.

They are simply saying that the high cost of talent in coastal cities will inevitably lead to overflow employment in lower cost cities. Chicago will naturally benefit from this. I didn’t see this as a knock on Chicago’s talent.
I actually read it this way too, but don't blame emathias for reading it the way he did.

Quote:
Truth is, we have top Universities in our region, the biggest issue is that we don’t have as many top paying jobs to attract the best the the brightest as NY or SF do. If we did, they would come. But companies here just don’t seem to be willing to pay top dollar, at least that’s what I seem to be hearing.
I think that's only partially true but it's more complicated than that IMO. It depends on where you are at in your career and what industry, and what kind of company you're going to. If you are senior and good at what you do, then some of the companies with actual money who don't have a problem spending it will pay you well. Some of the ones who might not be like that, maybe not as much. Chicago is a cheaper city than others, so the difference in salary can be explained sometimes with that. In all honesty, you can live in a better place alone in downtown Chicago on $100K per year than in Manhattan on $140K per year.

Let's put it this way. If I made $35K per year less in Chicago than what I currently make in NYC and paid the rent I was paying before I moved (downtown renovated luxury building), then I'd take home almost the same amount of money after rent and taxes in Chicago than I do in NYC currently on $35K less. The place I lived in Chicago was also nicer and bigger with more amenities than what I have here in Manhattan. So point being, even if that was let's say $25K difference in salary, then I'd make more money in Chicago than NYC on a lower salary. I think companies kind of know these things.......
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  #2364  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 3:19 PM
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Speak of the devil, some local companies discussing how they are faring attracting talent:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/empl...hiring-secrets
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  #2365  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 3:35 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Also I've posted this a few times, but it keeps getting deleted: Amazon is taking 1,000,000 in LIC, for example. The new Salesforce, Google, and Facebook leases just announced already total up to 900,000 SF. We are getting our HQ2, but it's coming in the form or large back offices from many giant tech companies. I would rather have that than one HQ2 because any of those offices could balloon into similar requirements if the situation in terms of labor and cost of living continues to get more out of control elsewhere.
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  #2366  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 4:03 PM
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^^ That's why I'm not as bummed out about losing HQ2. Here are all the confirmed and pending deals for the city - Salesforce: 5000 jobs, Google: ~1000 jobs, Facebook: ~1000 jobs, Walgreen's: 1800 jobs. That's not even including the dozens of relocations that are each bringing hundreds of jobs! Chicago has really pulled it's weight this past year, and will continue to do so. I'm pretty much done with the HQ2 discussion, but I'll leave here Howard Tullman's strong optimism for Chicago.

Amazon sweepstakes? Move on, Chicago!
Quote:
There hasn’t been a lot of hand-wringing or despair since Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos announced the winner of his yearlong quest for a second headquarters and jobs bonanza.

You know why? Because there’s been tremendous leadership and collaboration working in the trenches the past decade to put Chicago on the global tech map — led by 1871’s multiyear status as the No. 1 university-affiliated tech incubator worldwide.
....
But the great thing about our city is its rock-solid resilience and commitment to perpetual progress and ongoing improvement. So, the Amazon passion play was merely a hiccup or pothole in the road on a long journey forward. The resurgence of the city’s South Side with a developing new tech district, anchored by the $40 million Kaplan Family Institute at Illinois Institute of Technology; the visionary Discovery Partners Institute, a purpose-driven, collaborative research institute located in Chicago that is focused on creating solutions to grand challenges; new facilities being planned at the University of Illinois at Chicago; the redevelopment of the Michael Reese property — the list goes on. These are powerful evidence that Chicago’s momentum is unabated, and our growth will continue.

Chicago has always been about building a stronger, brighter future. We continue to be a hub of game-changing leaders, abundant resources, first-class universities and innovative vision — like the P33 program, a “Burnham plan for Chicago’s tech future,” which is a remarkable road map to an even brighter tomorrow.

You’re never really out of the game unless you wallow in regret more than dream big. Chicago’s dreams are alive and well, and since Amazon was wishful thinking from the outset to most of us in the tech world, it’s more like a bullet we dodged than something to regret. It’s time to move on and move forward, with optimism and a strong, savvy game plan. Now, that’s Chicago.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...115-story.html
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  #2367  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 4:24 PM
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I like his optimism but it’s way too fluffy for me.

The Michael Reese site was “just about to start” over a decade ago. How is that exciting?

The DPI Institute is far from a done deal. Even the 78 or Lincoln Yards are just plans so far.

Sorry guys, but I long ago stopped getting excited about huge plans. Anybody can draw up some neat buildings on a laptop.

Let’s see shovels in the dirt. Then we’ll talk.
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  #2368  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Also I've posted this a few times, but it keeps getting deleted: Amazon is taking 1,000,000 in LIC, for example. The new Salesforce, Google, and Facebook leases just announced already total up to 900,000 SF. We are getting our HQ2, but it's coming in the form or large back offices from many giant tech companies. I would rather have that than one HQ2 because any of those offices could balloon into similar requirements if the situation in terms of labor and cost of living continues to get more out of control elsewhere.
I agree with this. Go after more offices, more companies.
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  #2369  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 4:31 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Yea, it's pretty common knowledge that NYC is super expensive. I'd have to pay double or more in rent to get a similar place and then the neighborhood wouldn't be as nice as where I am on the northside. I don't see what the big appeal of NYC is, it's super crowded and has about the same amenities as Chicago.
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  #2370  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 4:45 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
Yea, it's pretty common knowledge that NYC is super expensive. I'd have to pay double or more in rent to get a similar place and then the neighborhood wouldn't be as nice as where I am on the northside. I don't see what the big appeal of NYC is, it's super crowded and has about the same amenities as Chicago.
Not according to Crawford who literally just said "I've never heard a Millennial complain about the cost of housing in NYC" in the HQ2 thread, Lol.

I don't know what's more dubious, that or to claim you've never heard a Millenial complain about the cost of housing period.
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  #2371  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 4:51 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
Yea, it's pretty common knowledge that NYC is super expensive. I'd have to pay double or more in rent to get a similar place and then the neighborhood wouldn't be as nice as where I am on the northside. I don't see what the big appeal of NYC is, it's super crowded and has about the same amenities as Chicago.
My place in Chicago was around $2000 per month. Equivalent place in Manhattan (south of Harlem)on average would be at least $4500 per month (there is ONE building a few blocks north of me that's like $3500-$3700 but that's way out of the ordinary). In a comparative neighborhood (i.e. more outwardly glitzy), it might even be pushing more than that. In Long Island City near where HQ2 is going, it's $3200/mo minimum and up to $3600 for comparative size and everything. My place is currently just under $3000/mo for a 1 bedroom with no amenities other than an elevator and a few washing/drying machines. Long Island City is on the up and up, but comparing it to a place like Gold Coast is extremely laughable. Gold Coast has way more things to do, eat at, shop at, etc.

The funny thing is that I live the same distance away from a train stop as I did in Chicago, but in Chicago I had way more right outside my front door than I have here. Now, it's a 5-10 minute walk away, but still. I'd say that my life in Chicago was actually more active than here. It's not like that for everyone, but I actually go out way less in NYC than I did in Chicago. That could be a change with me though, not the city - however last time I was back in Chicago in late May, I wanted to be outside 24/7. Don't know what it is..
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  #2372  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 4:54 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Not according to Crawford who literally just said "I've never heard a Millennial complain about the cost of housing in NYC" in the HQ2 thread, Lol.

I don't know what's more dubious, that or to claim you've never heard a Millenial complain about the cost of housing period.
ROFL. Bullshit. I work with numerous people who graduated less than 5 years ago. They complain about rent prices all the time. Every single one of them I showed Chicago prices to had the same reaction along the lines of "Why don't I live in Chicago?" In fact, I work with numerous people, millenials, who have moved to Dallas within our company and the #1 factor in every single one was the high COL in the NYC area.

Most of the people who don't complain either already have enough money thanks to their parents, or are just out of school with next to no possessions, and have no problem rooming with 2 or 3 other people and having an 8x8 foot bedroom. I have a friend who lived in Herald Square and his bedroom was a converted living room - but the living room wasn't typical. It was more like someone's home office. Everytime he'd visit me in Chicago in my apartment, it was always the same: "Why the hell do I live in NYC when I could have this for way less?"

Sure my things are anecdotes, but I hear it at work all the damn time. People complain so much about the rent prices here. They also do a lot to convince themselves that it's all normal - like the trash on the sidewalks in various areas. People come from all over, so they have this romantic vision that NYC is literally the only place in America that's walkable so they come up with all sorts of crazy excuses for things like this. And it's the most walkable city in America, don't get me wrong - just not the only place.
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Last edited by marothisu; Nov 15, 2018 at 5:33 PM.
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  #2373  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 2:40 PM
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https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...al-race-closes

GREG HINZ ON POLITICS
November 19, 2018 05:00 AM UPDATED 56 MINUTES AGO

Downtown jobs keep soaring as mayoral race closes in

Downtown Chicago has added the jobs equivalent of almost three Amazon HQ2s in just eight years, even as growth in other neighborhoods and some suburbs turns negative.


GREG HINZ




Quote:
As the race for mayor of Chicago gets seriously underway, new data on job creation in the metropolitan area starkly underlines what will be at stake in a city and region where some areas are enjoying unprecedented growth but others remain stuck in an economic rut.

The data are from Where Workers Work, a publication of the Illinois Department of Employment Security, which, unlike much job data, is based not on a sample or a survey but a hard count of jobs—in this case private-sector positions covered by unemployment insurance, which IDES administers.

The topline is that, in the year ended in March, the six-county metropolitan area added just under 41,000 jobs, an uptick of 1.1 percent, somewhat behind national growth in that period of 1.8 percent. Since the Great Recession ended in 2010, the region has put an additional 463,820 people to work, an increase of 13.9 percent.


Quote:
Rapid growth in downtown Chicago, the destination of an increasing number of employers in search of top talent, not only is continuing but accelerating. In the downtown area—a combination of the traditional Loop and adjoining Near North, West and South sides—private-sector employers added 19,249 jobs in the most recent year, a hefty 3.25 percent growth, for a new total of 612,914.

Since 2010, downtown has added an eye-popping 133,715 jobs—a figure almost equal to three of the HQ2 prize that Amazon promised to create until recently deciding to instead send 25,000 jobs each to New York and Washington, D.C.
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  #2374  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 4:08 PM
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The city's incredibly overblown reputation as a Mad-Max like dystopia of crime and murder is the only thing from keeping it from exploding (even more) with development. People from NYC/SF still routinely ask me if I'm afraid of getting hurt or murdered. I was more concerned for my safety on a daily basis when I lived in SF. I'm going to injure my eye rolling muscles some day.

The transplants I meet who've been here a few months are basically like "WTF this place is cheap and crazy great. Why did I waste a fortune on the coasts?".
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  #2375  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 4:55 PM
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If you work downtown the trend is definitely noticeable.

Looking forward to reaching a million jobs downtown in a decade or so. These numbers do not include Federal, state, or local government employees. That could be another 50k jobs downtown.
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  #2376  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 5:00 PM
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Yeah...the only thing that will address the murder reputation is less murder. DC is worse than Chicago, but I don't really hear or see people mention it much. It has been said before, but for better or worse, crime in Chicago is highly segregated.

I also felt more uncomfortable in parts of SF than I do here, but I know where I am when I'm here and I'm nowhere near as familiar with SF. It felt like I walked past more "sketchy" people in SF than I do here.
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  #2377  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 9:08 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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It's interesting that the City of Chicago now has more jobs downtown than outside downtown. Has that ever been true anytime on the past (obviously meaning once after Chicago was bigger than just the 1835 borders)?

Also interesting that around 28% of all added regional jobs were in downtown, an area made up of a tiny fraction of the geography of Chicagoland. In fact, the portion of added jobs that were added just in downtown is almost exactly the same as the proportion of the regional population that Chicago proper holds (about 28% for both). I think it's awesome that 40% of the region's jobs were added within the City proper. Maybe doesn't portend well for the suburbs, but should be a great thing for the City.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killaviews View Post
If you work downtown the trend is definitely noticeable.

Looking forward to reaching a million jobs downtown in a decade or so. These numbers do not include Federal, state, or local government employees. That could be another 50k jobs downtown.
Downtown has exploded since 2010, and it was hardly a slacker before then. The West Loop, especially including Fulton Market, is on an insane tear, River North is closer than ever to being fully built out, the South Loop is finally feeling like a cohesive neighborhood instead of a wasteland punctuated by a few luxury outposts. The same could be said of the East Loop and Streeterville. If Downtown is counted s far north as North Ave, the former Cabrini-Green area is actually making some progress toward filling in. I think the next Mayor is, while primarily trying to crack the pension crisis, going to have to start being serious about planning and adding additional grade-seperated transit in the downtown area unless they want downtown to choke on itself. It's already pretty strained, and if we add another hundred thousand+ residents and quarter million jobs in an area of only about ten square miles (Cermak Road, the Lake, North Ave, ~Ashland, minus Pilsen), the logjam that is the areas between Chicago Ave, Congress, and Canal is going to fill the entire downtown area and significantly hinder movement at any time during daylight hours.

A Circle Line with a narrower scope than the original plan would be very useful, something like a Clinton Street subway that, going south, actually splits off the Red Line at around Halsted until Chicago Ave, then swooping east under Cermak, back north roughly signed with Columbus and, after a couple jiggers, returns west under either North Ave or, ideally, Armitage. The only problem that doesn't solve is getting West Loopers to North Michigan Ave, which will matter less if the West Loop is better tired to Lincoln Yards and "The 78," which can absorb additional office space, leaving Streeterville to be mostly residential and/or just not typical commercial office space. A big chunk of the eastern leg can parallel existing Metra rails (I know they won't like that, but tough beans), the stretch through Streeterville will be a challenge, but maybe can be done as a very deep tunnel like in Barcelona, and if it goes under Clark north of Chestnut, the half-mile between LaSalle and Armitage could be cut and cover through the Park, and if the NW corner of this greater loop is nudged it a little, it comes "close enough" to be useful for Lincoln Yard, permanently solving the biggest concern for that area.

Sounds fanciful right now, but I think without it, downtown will choke on itself within a few decades unless the economy in Chicago just collapses.

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Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Yeah...the only thing that will address the murder reputation is less murder. DC is worse than Chicago, but I don't really hear or see people mention it much. It has been said before, but for better or worse, crime in Chicago is highly segregated.

I also felt more uncomfortable in parts of SF than I do here, but I know where I am when I'm here and I'm nowhere near as familiar with SF. It felt like I walked past more "sketchy" people in SF than I do here.
Yeah, statistics aside, I really dislike San Francisco. So much of it is just ... gross. I mean, even parts that aren't actually gross, are way overblown. Boystown, for example, is way better than the Castro is. Like any big city there are, of course, some great things, like the Golden Gate bridge, the cable cars, some of the less touristy neighborhoods, but overall it just feels like a child's neglected toy idea of a city. I mean the fact that they've had decades of problems with human excrement on sidewalls is just disgusting and can't be seen as anything other than a glaring sign of apathetic, incompetent governance.
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  #2378  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2018, 11:40 PM
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^ That almost sounds like Toronto building the Downtown Relief Line and various other projects. Unfortunately, Chicago isn't Toronto. There, a compelling transit plan can make or break a mayoral campaign. Here, new transit lines are the last thing on the candidates' minds.

IMO Rahm was about the best we could hope for, he clearly understood the value of transit and made as many small to medium-sized investments in CTA as he could while methodically getting the ducks in a row for the big Red-Purple rebuild on the North Side. I'm worried the next mayor will just take our transit system for granted, or focus all the resources on a big-ticket social-justice project like Red Line Extension that does nothing to fix congestion. Even worse, the next mayor might actually see transit projects as *purely* a way to create jobs, leading to NY-style cost escalation.
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  #2379  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2018, 12:14 AM
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What about having some Purple Line Expresses turn into Oak Park trains (would involve reversing at Clark/Lake. which might make too much a mess of things)? That might help with Northside -> West Loop commutes with relatively little effort.
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  #2380  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2018, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Yeah...the only thing that will address the murder reputation is less murder. DC is worse than Chicago, but I don't really hear or see people mention it much. It has been said before, but for better or worse, crime in Chicago is highly segregated.
It doesn't even matter. The problem is that there's a stereotype out there right now so the fact don't matter. People cling to what their stereotype is.

Through 11/11:

2018: 502 homicides
2017: 607 homicides
2016: 680 homicides

So obviously 2016 and 3/4 of 2017 were crazier than a long time, and the number this year is too high, but it's still decreased over 17% since last year, and decreased over 26% compared to 2016. And again, the number is still too high, but it's already decreasing back to pre 2016 levels at this rate. However, if you ask someone who isn't actually familiar with Chicago as a whole, they'd think it was 2016 numbers or worse still because the media continues to talk about that and many times doesn't even touch on the decrease.

Also due to the ubiquity of media now, people in Chicago think it's still the worst ever. So, yeah I think the lower crime would help but even when Chicago in 2013 or 2014 had the lowest crime it had since 1965, people were still writing articles about how terrible it supposedly is.

I have a co-worker who would give me crap about Chicago and the funny thing is that he visited Nashville recently and loved it. We got into it once, and me telling him how dumb he and others are for thinking that homicide is the only crime the matters (obviously it matters a lot, but just because you have an area with 0 or low homicide doesn't mean you aren't going to get your ass kicked and robbed). Imagine the surprise on his face after showing him that Nashville's assault rate is much higher than Chicago's and how even Anchorage has a much higher assault rate than Chicago.

But yeah, these things don't matter. People get their statistics from the news, and often times the news has painted a different picture than the reality (reality being that it's more complicated than 1 number).
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