Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

If mostly regular bus service could handle Canada day, shouldn't the Confederation Line also be able to? Granted there may be plenty of safety concerns with that, and parallel bus service may not be a bad idea either.

The thing is it isn’t even regular bus service as none of the express connexion buses are running, but they do have extra buses available for the other routes as needed.

I think the Confederation Line will be fine for most of the day most years (there was a Canada Day a couple years ago where it was raining all morning and then when the sun came out everyone decided to go downtown at the same time, which caused chaos, but that was unusual, and even then it won’t be any worse than the buses were as the trains won’t get stuck downtown, waiting for pedestrians to cross the street). The big problem will be after the fireworks, but as I have mentioned in the past, there are strategies they can use to help deal with that.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The thing is it isn’t even regular bus service as none of the express connexion buses are running, but they do have extra buses available for the other routes as needed.

I think the Confederation Line will be fine for most of the day most years (there was a Canada Day a couple years ago where it was raining all morning and then when the sun came out everyone decided to go downtown at the same time, which caused chaos, but that was unusual, and even then it won’t be any worse than the buses were as the trains won’t get stuck downtown, waiting for pedestrians to cross the street). The big problem will be after the fireworks, but as I have mentioned in the past, there are strategies they can use to help deal with that.

Good Day.

yep....strategies.....yeah. Not to be disparaging, because you are absolutely correct.

But........ this gives them credit for having at least two brain cells rubbing together, which has never been evident in the past. OC's special event or special day service has always been despicable, and I see no reason to be confident that they will have any incentive to wake up anytime soon. They seem to treat specials and expected or anticipable out-of-the-ordinary events and situations as utterly unexpected or unanticipable emergencies.

I have no confidence in their anticipation skills. None.

One might have hope that RTG, as at least the background operator of the control center, might have some new skills to contribute to special occurrences anticipation, but will they be overridden by OC standard BS ?

I would be absolutely overjoyed and proud to be proven wrong !

NoExpectations!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Sorry, but a decent number of office people start work at 6am weekdays, and if you want a coffee just before, you get there for 5:45am. A fair number of construction & delivery jobs also start quite early in the morning -- 5 or 6 am.

Probably less people out late on a Sunday night, than start early on a weekday.

There would definitely be people out late Friday or Saturday evening.

Wouldn't most construction and delivery people have vehicles for their work and drive anyway?

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wouldn't most construction and delivery people have vehicles for their work and drive anyway?

The ones who cannot afford a car, work for areas of the city that are transit-accessible. When they are at work, if/when they need a vehicle, they use a company one. ...When transit coverage areas & time are reduced, it disproportionately disadvantages poorer people.

I'll add warehouse & hospital/lab people to that list.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Buggys

I'll add warehouse & hospital/lab people to that list.

I have found that many in the military tend to start work much earlier than the other government employees. A 7:00am start seems to be typical for them but many start even earlier. Toronto and Montreal don't have as many (any?) military buildings downtown so the need isn't as great.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

yep....strategies.....yeah. Not to be disparaging, because you are absolutely correct.

But........ this gives them credit for having at least two brain cells rubbing together, which has never been evident in the past. OC's special event or special day service has always been despicable, and I see no reason to be confident that they will have any incentive to wake up anytime soon. They seem to treat specials and expected or anticipable out-of-the-ordinary events and situations as utterly unexpected or unanticipable emergencies.

I have no confidence in their anticipation skills. None.

One might have hope that RTG, as at least the background operator of the control center, might have some new skills to contribute to special occurrences anticipation, but will they be overridden by OC standard BS ?

I would be absolutely overjoyed and proud to be proven wrong !

NoExpectations!

I still remember when this poor gentleman in a wheelchair was waiting at Hurdman station on Canada Day a few years back. He was complaining that he had been waiting for 2 hours. Every bus was at crush levels. Service was awful that day. I complained to my city councillor that they were not the least bit prepared. This was not after the fireworks, it was mid-afternoon.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I still remember when this poor gentleman in a wheelchair was waiting at Hurdman station on Canada Day a few years back. He was complaining that he had been waiting for 2 hours. Every bus was at crush levels. Service was awful that day. I complained to my city councillor that they were not the least bit prepared. This was not after the fireworks, it was mid-afternoon.

Was that Canada Day 2017? If so, that was the year it was pouring in the morning and then the sun came out in the afternoon, so everyone decided to go downtown at the same time. OC Transpo had so many buses on the road that Albert and Slater streets were heavily congested and it took over 20 minutes to get from Bay to Mackenzie King Bridge (it was much faster to walk). Despite that, all of the transitway stations had huge lineups of people trying to board.

It was a "perfect storm" so to speak and with all the congestion on Albert and Slater Streets, I am not sure what OC Transpo could have done to make things better. Most years, people will go downtown at different times of day, distributing the load more evenly.

Adding to the delays, the RCMP decided at the last minute (without informing OC Transpo) to close Albert Street to use it for Prince Charles's motorcade.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...day-transit-service-oc-transpo-boss-says

The Confederation Line will help as the trains won't have to wait for streams of pedestrians deciding to continue crossing the street on a red light.

[lrt's friend]

Nope. Not 2017. When I woke to pouring rain and then heard about the mess downtown, I decided to stay home. Can you imagine if the weather had been good? I remember it had rained again later in the day as well.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Nope. Not 2017. When I woke to pouring rain and then heard about the mess downtown, I decided to stay home. Can you imagine if the weather had been good? I remember it had rained again later in the day as well.

In theory the train can handle more than the buses, but not until we have more trains. We are starting with just enough to match the current transitway capacity

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

When the plan was to hand the line over Nov. 2, they said it would be operational by the end of the month, which is less than a month. I don’t see why that would be different now. There are always risks of major deficiencies that could cause additional delays, but hopefully those will be sorted out prior to the handover.

I don’t believe them for a second. I’ve been on multi-billion dollar procurement projects. That looked like a slow-walk delay strategy to stop them incurring penalties or at least delay the penalties. Manconi didn’t buy it either.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Went through the tweet's comments; guy asked "Do we have a confirmed start date yet?" and Watson replied "By the end of March".

https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/status/1061365923712524294

Looking like they have decided to avoid launching in the worst of winter.

[corynv]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Looking like they have decided to avoid launching in the worst of winter.

Since it's been delayed as much as it has been, I do think it's a good idea, especially since they can do a full season of winter testing at high levels.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by corynv

Since it's been delayed as much as it has been, I do think it's a good idea, especially since they can do a full season of winter testing at high levels.

I am curious how all this works with penalties. RTG is going to fork over funds for another 3 months of buses, after they’ve finished all the work? Curious why they’d do that.

I would think too, if they achieve reliability, they should launch revenue service. Why hold off?

Hoping this is Watson’s way of building slack.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don’t believe them for a second. I’ve been on multi-billion dollar procurement projects. That looked like a slow-walk delay strategy to stop them incurring penalties or at least delay the penalties. Manconi didn’t buy it either.

It was the city (not RTG) that said they could "launch the $2.1-billion LRT line by the end of November, as long as RTG delivers the completed project on Nov. 2."* I don't see what that has anything to do with the RTG incurring penalties.

* City to open LRT by the end of November

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It was the city (not RTG) that said they could "launch the $2.1-billion LRT line by the end of November, as long as RTG delivers the completed project on Nov. 2."* I don't see what that has anything to do with the RTG incurring penalties.

* City to open LRT by the end of November

It was my understanding that this was based on RTG advice. The whole "partial opening" offer.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It was my understanding that this was based on RTG advice. The whole "partial opening" offer.

The partial opening offer only came in September. The article I linked to was in February and was based on RTG completing by Nov. 2.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The partial opening offer only came in September. The article I linked to was in February and was based on RTG completing by Nov. 2.

Right. But we were discussing penalties. As I understand it, RTG is obligated to cover bus diversion costs for delays. So if RTG finishes by Christmas, why would they cover bus diversions for a much longer testing period?

As behind as RTG is, it does look like they'll be done by the end of December.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Looking like they have decided to avoid launching in the worst of winter.

Before everyone takes this as gospel, it was a non-answer by Jimbo. The last update was that the confed line opening was delayed to Q1 2019, which ends on March 31st. All he did is repeat this answer with a different wording, there's no new info here.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Right. But we were discussing penalties. As I understand it, RTG is obligated to cover bus diversion costs for delays. So if RTG finishes by Christmas, why would they cover bus diversions for a much longer testing period?

.

I’m doubtful of that. Nearly statement the mayor, city council, and OCTranspo has made about the contract has turned out to be wrong. I’m not sure we have any reason to believe this one either.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Before everyone takes this as gospel, it was a non-answer by Jimbo. The last update was that the confed line opening was delayed to Q1 2019, which ends on March 31st. All he did is repeat this answer with a different wording, there's no new info here.

Originally Posted by acottawa

I’m doubtful of that. Nearly statement the mayor, city council, and OCTranspo has made about the contract has turned out to be wrong. I’m not sure we have any reason to believe this one either.

Fair points both. I guess we really don’t know what the penalties are. And I guess that was a bit non-comittal. Wasn’t there supposed to be a FEDCO meeting with an update?