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  #5981  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 5:48 AM
Kisai Kisai is offline
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
I see this all a little different.

An extension should be built to both Newton and Guildford. They should be designed so that they could be their own line separate of the Expo line. Then, build the Skytrain to Langley.

Now, for those that say that is not enough for the legs, what you now do is make the Newton - Guildford section a new "line"

Build an extension north of Guildford to PoCo to connect with the Evergreen section. That would turn the Newton - Guldford section into the Millennium Line.

Then, a future extension to White Rock could be done.

Solves a lot of problems and gives more access to more areas by Skytrain.
Realisticly, you want the lines to be one so you can share the OMC's and rolling stock without having to operate them as separate systems. There is a tradeoff here where if the signalling fails for some reason, the entire system goes down, but that's a one in 5 year event. What fails more often are the switches, which is why the trains terminate at Edmonds or Columbia when the switch is stuck.

Anyways what I imagine is the main line Expo line going from Scott Road to Langley City Center, and then two "L" lines that extend from third platforms at Scott Road and/or Surrey City Center. The north L line Scott Road -> Guildford -> Langley. The south L line is then Surrey City Center -> Newton -> Cloverdale -> Langley. So each train that start or ends at Langley has the same frequency as the trains that arrive from Columbia.

If every third train goes to Surrey, then Surrey can have trains that do not cross to Columbia. So each side of the river has the same frequency, they just don't have every train cross.

If the Evergreen segment ever gets to Pitt Meadows, then it can also go south to Langley thus the main SoF hub is via Langley. It's too late to make any of the existing three stations the central hub since Surrey's existing stations were not built with multiple platforms (though I suppose there's nothing preventing one from being built at the cost of whatever is parallel to it.)

This is all just throwing darts at the wall though, one thing needs to be built, and whatever is built needs to have something like that built into it so that the lines aren't isolated (eg not like Broadway/Commercial) and thus if an additional OMC needs to be built, it can be built anywhere where the Skytrain tracks are. Those connections don't need to be actively switched (eg they could just switch tracks to adjust capacity, rather than run as a dozen different destinations.

Anyway, what I'm getting at the LRT fans (SBOT, and the developers) don't give a care where or what is actually built in the end, they just wanted to cash out as fast as possible. So if anything is built, it should be built with the intent of future-proofing the transit-oriented-development potential rather than just building whatever, wherever because property prices/development dictated the station location.
     
     
  #5982  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 8:49 PM
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It's quite exciting and strange that we are having a discussion that resembles to a fantasy I made a few months ago in summer.

In my fantasy I had the Millennium line extend to (bear with me now!) YVR, then through Richmond, across Annacis Island, through western parts of Surrey, interlining at Surrey Central and making its way to Guildford. If we were to continue my fantasy (and I guess it's time for me to do a big ol' update now), we could connect the Millennium line to POCO station or to Maple Ridge, and then make the Millennium line into a huge ring around the region? Again I should post this as a fantasy update....

But yeah I have been waiting for years for us to start having discussions on designs for the expo line extension. It's quite refreshing from all of that LRT bullshit.
     
     
  #5983  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 5:10 AM
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TransLink extends bidding deadline for Surrey LRT amid uncertainty

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“Given the City of Surrey’s indication that they plan to begin a discussion with the new Mayors’ Council regarding rapid transit in Surrey, we’ve extended the RFQ (Request for Qualifications) deadline until December 19,” said Chris Bryan, Senior Media Relations Advisor for TransLink, in an emailed statement.

“This has been done at the request of proponents to allow for more time to receive clarity from the Mayors’ Council on policy direction,” Bryan added.
Dates to watch: Nov 5 and Nov 15.

Last edited by Waders; Nov 1, 2018 at 5:25 AM.
     
     
  #5984  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 5:36 AM
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What would be the fallout if the Mayors’ Council rejects Surrey’s request?

Feel like it would make a lot of unnecessary bad blood within the mayors’ council.

Also how could the LRT project even proceed without Surrey agreeing? It is not like a highway project that exist on an established provincial or federal jurisdiction. The entire project takes place on local streets.
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  #5985  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 5:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
What would be the fallout if the Mayors’ Council rejects Surrey’s request?

Feel like it would make a lot of unnecessary bad blood within the mayors’ council.

Also how could the LRT project even proceed without Surrey agreeing? It is not like a highway project that exist on an established provincial or federal jurisdiction. The entire project takes place on local streets.
Oh they could easily kill LRT and say no to Skytrain. No matter what happens I suspect there'll be a lot of bad blood.

The mayors of Richmond and the North Shore are already leaning that way. Vancouver has basically said they'll side with Surrey and it's a safe bet the Langleys will as well. Hopefully we won't see an 'us vs them' mentality come out of it.
     
     
  #5986  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 6:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Oh they could easily kill LRT and say no to Skytrain. No matter what happens I suspect there'll be a lot of bad blood.
I'll bring my popcorn because the drama between the new mayors and the current ones will be interesting.
     
     
  #5987  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 6:57 AM
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Relax, people. Note the last line: “This has been done at the request of proponents to allow for more time to receive clarity from the Mayors’ Council on policy direction,” Bryan added.

In other words, the BOT's been making a lot of noise, and so TransLink's just going ahead with the procurement request to keep them happy. Our transit planners (actual planners, not university theory guys) have always preferred RRT, and now they have two local councils - plus Vancouver - ready to approve one. The contracts are going to come in, they'll say that none of them work, and then they'll go ahead with planning the SkyTrain.
     
     
  #5988  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Relax, people. Note the last line: “This has been done at the request of proponents to allow for more time to receive clarity from the Mayors’ Council on policy direction,” Bryan added.

In other words, the BOT's been making a lot of noise, and so TransLink's just going ahead with the procurement request to keep them happy. Our transit planners (actual planners, not university theory guys) have always preferred RRT, and now they have two local councils - plus Vancouver - ready to approve one. The contracts are going to come in, they'll say that none of them work, and then they'll go ahead with planning the SkyTrain.
The problem has always been the money though. This is either going to be a SkyTrain to nowhere, or cost an extra $1B.
     
     
  #5989  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 5:53 PM
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The problem has always been the money though. This is either going to be a SkyTrain to nowhere, or cost an extra $1B.
Well we're not going back to light rail. At best, the BOT convinces TransLink to go with RRT2 instead (SkyTrain to Newton, Guildford-Langley BRT), despite the lower ridership.
     
     
  #5990  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Well we're not going back to light rail. At best, the BOT convinces TransLink to go with RRT2 instead (SkyTrain to Newton, Guildford-Langley BRT), despite the lower ridership.
lower ridership, but higher ridership per expenditure
     
     
  #5991  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 7:11 PM
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The problem has always been the money though. This is either going to be a SkyTrain to nowhere, or cost an extra $1B.
The 1st Expo Extension to Scott Rd didn't really go anywhere either. Plus, if we go by RRT2, I don't think you can call Newton Central 'nowhere'.
     
     
  #5992  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 8:08 PM
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The 1st Expo Extension to Scott Rd didn't really go anywhere either.
It went across the river, which was a big deal at the time. Buses used to eternally get stuck on the bridges during rush hour - being able to bypass that on Skytrain was heaven.
     
     
  #5993  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 8:26 PM
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It went across the river, which was a big deal at the time. Buses used to eternally get stuck on the bridges during rush hour - being able to bypass that on Skytrain was heaven.
Right, but wasn't Whalley back then basically what Fleetwood is now? The "SkyTrain to Nowhere" argument falls apart when one realizes that most of Vancouver was Nowhere until the train came along.
     
     
  #5994  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 9:00 PM
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This skytrain to nowhere argument leaves me convinced that there aren't any other logical points to support the view.

As much as I like reading this thread again, I will say that without being a part of the political environment, that I know that Langley backing the decision to extend the Skytrain is obviously expecting that the skytrain will extend TO Langley.
     
     
  #5995  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Relax, people. Note the last line: “This has been done at the request of proponents to allow for more time to receive clarity from the Mayors’ Council on policy direction,” Bryan added.

In other words, the BOT's been making a lot of noise, and so TransLink's just going ahead with the procurement request to keep them happy. Our transit planners (actual planners, not university theory guys) have always preferred RRT, and now they have two local councils - plus Vancouver - ready to approve one. The contracts are going to come in, they'll say that none of them work, and then they'll go ahead with planning the SkyTrain.
Who or what are the BOTs?
     
     
  #5996  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 9:30 PM
Colin4567 Colin4567 is offline
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Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
Who or what are the BOTs?
Boards of Trade, so the Surrey Board of Trade and the Newton Business Improvement Association
     
     
  #5997  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by scryer View Post
This skytrain to nowhere argument leaves me convinced that there aren't any other logical points to support the view.

As much as I like reading this thread again, I will say that without being a part of the political environment, that I know that Langley backing the decision to extend the Skytrain is obviously expecting that the skytrain will extend TO Langley.
Surrey and Vancouver are the two largest municipalities and make nearly half of the votes in the region. Langley might still agree on the basis of a Surrey Central to Carvloth B-line via 104th (not that difficult to imagine) even if we go via RRT2 or 3.

Even if Langley doesn't agree, Richmond and Coquitlam aren't large enough to block it, and Burnaby or Delta might agree to the proposal, which would still tip the favors towards Skytrain. (Delta especially is probably going to get better bus service due to RRT2, due to greater efficiency from buses being able to transfer to Newton from N. Delta.)
     
     
  #5998  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 1:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scryer View Post
This skytrain to nowhere argument leaves me convinced that there aren't any other logical points to support the view.

As much as I like reading this thread again, I will say that without being a part of the political environment, that I know that Langley backing the decision to extend the Skytrain is obviously expecting that the skytrain will extend TO Langley.
Vancouver is a model for Transit Oriented Development. Name me a station that is older than the Canada Line that has not see growth?
     
     
  #5999  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 1:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Right, but wasn't Whalley back then basically what Fleetwood is now? The "SkyTrain to Nowhere" argument falls apart when one realizes that most of Vancouver was Nowhere until the train came along.
Yup.

Chicken and the egg debate.

Build to shape growth (as the Millennium Line was done),
or to serve existing growth?

When you build through low density areas ripe for future growth there are a lot fewer headaches.

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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Vancouver is a model for Transit Oriented Development. Name me a station that is older than the Canada Line that has not see growth?
Like Nanaimo Station or 29th Ave. Station?
Even Commercial Broadway Station has barely seen growth - certainly not on a scale warranted by 2 SkyTrain lines.
     
     
  #6000  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 1:30 AM
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So Justin Trudeau just said he won’t stand in the way if Surrey decides to switch technologies, essentially confirming that the funding and support will still be there.

So much for that fear mongering that the money would disappear.

Whether or not more funding could be added for Skytrain to Langley was neither suggested or denied.

We will have to wait and see.

And yes, Commecial Broadway is shameful regarding how little the area has been built up / utilized.
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