Winnipeg | Portage and Main

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

The original plan for that courtyard was a lobby accessing two towers.

Pretty sure the original plan was three towers. The third would have been on the gravel lot just north of the one tower that was built.

The point is the plan changed and that courtyard has become a very important piece of that building now and is likely a permanent thing.

Originally Posted by headhorse

I believe our transportation corridors should be planned by transportation experts.

LMAO because council has acted responsibility and taken the expert advice on planning transportation corridors from the traffic engineers they employee. Oh wait, they directly disregarded that information for their own personal gain and did so in the council term that just ended.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

I don't mind that it remains closed. I also think the accessibility issue is over-blown in that you can go the long ways around to cross P&M. The locked doors and broken elevator equipment inside the whole underground system is inexcusable. Especially the two lifts in 201, why didn't they just build a bridge.

Open proponents, elitists and the left just can't seem to grasp the concept that you can walk a block over and cross both Portage and Main anywhere, anytime, so what's stopping you?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Bingo for the bolded part. Downtown provides about 20% of tax base, yet has around 2% of the population. That alone should allow the businesses to have more pull in a situation like this.



Yup. I have heard from people in an unnamed organization that works with all 4 property owners that they are ALL forging ahead with their renovation plans to re-orient their buildings to the intersection and upgrade plazas/streetscaping. It could/probably will force the city's hand to do something.

Sounds like they'd even consider legal action if councillors vote to keep it closed, as there's some unclear wording in the original contract. It says that the owners can reenact the clause for another 40 years if they want, but it's not clear about what happens if they decide not to – the city may not even have a choice.



Funny how it's the yes is all along Portage Avenue and Main Street – you know, the people that interact with the area the most, and stand to be affected the most either way.

Fine, you show a map of the vote but unfortunately it doesn't tell the whole story; the downtown area votes: 1377 votes for open; 1220 votes for closed; 53% is hardly overwhelming. Had the downtown vote been 80% for OPEN and 20% for CLOSED the disparity would have some relevance but it wasn't. This narrative that everyone living downtown wanted it open basically false news! Nice try though.

[pspeid]

I doubt another point would have changed the votes of many "no" voters, but this may be a factor in future discussions. The city counts on tax revenue from the P & M stakeholders, just like any others. If P & M isa allowed to continue to decay, won't the address become less desirable to owners and renters, and tax revenue eventually go down? Isn't it like allowing a rental property to become run down and not being able to charge as much rent? Am I totally off the rails here?

[esquire]

^ This whole situation is like a case study in Stockholm syndrome, the P&M developers cut off access to pedestrians to feed traffic into their underground malls and no other purpose. Now 40 years later you have ordinary people defending the deal they reached way back when as if there was any sort of public benefit that arose from it.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by pspeid

I doubt another point would have changed the votes of many "no" voters, but this may be a factor in future discussions. The city counts on tax revenue from the P & M stakeholders, just like any others. If P & M isa allowed to continue to decay, won't the address become less desirable to owners and renters, and tax revenue eventually go down? Isn't it like allowing a rental property to become run down and not being able to charge as much rent? Am I totally off the rails here?

Not crazy. Pretty logical actually

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by wave46

It is a indictment of the current state democracy to be certain.

However, I am a firm believer the will of the people should be respected, such that it is expressed.

The will of the people directly affected and living in the area surrounding P & M was to open it.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

The will of the people directly affected and living in the area surrounding P & M was to open it.

Yeah 53% but 47% wanted it to remain closed, will of a slim majority more like!

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Open proponents, elitists and the left just can't seem to grasp the concept that you can walk a block over and cross both Portage and Main anywhere, anytime, so what's stopping you?

The question here is "why not just walk one more block to cross at the surface?" A fair enough question. Answered, I believe, by the businesses' need for foot traffic in front of their premises (not a block away), access for individuals with mobility issues, ability to market the city with an image of urban renewal, and the overall urban advantages of opening up the downtown to more pedestrian traffic in an aesthetically-pleasing environment.

The coarse and vulgar portion, however, appears to be pure "rrskylar", whomever this person is. Now he is certainly entitled to his opinion on this topic; that's what forums are for. However, I am guessing terms like "elitists" and "leftists" are mean to be epithets (though only taken as such if you think they are disparaging), while suggesting proponents are unable to "grasp the concept" is pure grade-school bullying. It's sad that some folks can't separate their point-of-argument from the cruelty with which they seem to enjoy "spicing" their comments.

Now if I were to respond like a "rrskylar", I would probably write something like "what's with the seagull act, man? All you do is make a racket and crap all over everything!", or "Seriously, are you a troll? All you ever seem to do is try to stir people up with insults and provocations."

IF I was like an "rrskylar"

[rkspec]

Global reported yesterday that when the barricades come down a couple options might be rails or bollards.
They also said that although the plebiscite favored no, its private property and if the owners want it down, its their decision to take them down as a bottom line.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by rkspec

Global reported yesterday that when the barricades come down a couple options might be rails or bollards.
They also said that although the plebiscite favored no, its private property and if the owners want it down, its their decision to take them down as a bottom line.

I love it!

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by rkspec

Global reported yesterday that when the barricades come down a couple options might be rails or bollards.
They also said that although the plebiscite favored no, its private property and if the owners want it down, its their decision to take them down as a bottom line.

Well, come next year, we might see drastic changes then, and I'm not talking about what the city will be doing next year either.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by pspeid

The coarse and vulgar portion, however, appears to be pure "rrskylar", whomever this person is. Now he is certainly entitled to his opinion on this topic; that's what forums are for. However, I am guessing terms like "elitists" and "leftists" are mean to be epithets (though only taken as such if you think they are disparaging), while suggesting proponents are unable to "grasp the concept" is pure grade-school bullying. It's sad that some folks can't separate their point-of-argument from the cruelty with which they seem to enjoy "spicing" their comments.

Now if I were to respond like a "rrskylar", I would probably write something like "what's with the seagull act, man? All you do is make a racket and crap all over everything!", or "Seriously, are you a troll? All you ever seem to do is try to stir people up with insults and provocations."

IF I was like an "rrskylar"

I'm always entertained by people who think that consulting an expert is elitist. It's similar to the folks who advocate for citizen journalism (Marty Gold, Black Rod, etc.) If they get a brain tumour, do they want a citizen neurosurgeon to operate on it? It would be elitist to go to a real neurosurgeon, right?

[esquire]

^ No way the barricades are private property?! They're practically on the street, that has to be the City of Winnipeg's. The signage around there indicates as such.

[rkspec]

bollards might look pretty slick, esp at night if they are illuminated with some RBG LED's.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ No way the barricades are private property?! They're practically on the street, that has to be the City of Winnipeg's. The signage around there indicates as such.

i'll see what i can find to back up what i heard.

Found it, FFW to 4:45 mark

https://globalnews.ca/video/4597341/...-6-oct-25-2018

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by Gm0ney

A lot of people don't know this, but the route between the Transcona CN Machine Shop and the Spike runs right through Portage and Main, so not surprising to see a hard pass from TCone.

But perhaps we can reach some compromise - maybe if we coat the intersection with beige stucco and put a double attached garage prominently on each corner, the suburbs will come around on opening it up to pedestrians.

If we need to sell the suburbs on the idea of a walkable downtown maybe we need to take notes from the walkable town centres of bridgewater & sage creek. I say we put up surface parking lots on 2 of the 4 corners and replace the Richardson building with a stand-alone single story Tim's/Wendy's combo with drive thru. That should help the suburbanites envision a walkable community in our downtown.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by rkspec

bollards might look pretty slick, esp at night if they are illuminated with some RBG LED's.

Sounds great...in theory. I'm sure nice stainless steel bollards and LED lighting would work great - in Phoenix.

I am all for a new revamped P&M, I just worry about maintenance with our winters, plowing, salt and sand (not to mention all the collisions - those barricades get pretty beat up) would have on anything pretty around there. I want the bunkers removed too, i'm just not sure what should be built though.

I would love for it to be pretty. It might take some real thought though.

[bomberjet]

Just put in normal curbs and sidewalks. Nothing to maintain. ohhh, wait. right..

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Just put in normal curbs and sidewalks. Nothing to maintain. ohhh, wait. right..

That's probably what's gonna happen. They're simply not going to "flatten" certain curbs for pedestrians, put a couple of steel bollards and chains, not paint crosswalk lines on the street, and call it a day.

That would be the least amount of money spent on the intersection, and when the time does come to open it, they'll just simply remove the bollards, "flatten" the curbs, paint the lines, and then add the signals and timers needed for the crosswalk.

Problem solved.

EDIT: Just to give you an idea what they look like...



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