New York’s Empty Storefronts Are A Dark Omen For The Future Of Cities

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Radiohead's seminal album on the other hand, Kid A, was released in 2000. It would have been something that would have been an important cultural touchstone for both Millennial teens and Gen-X 20-somethings of the time.

Radiohead came to fame in the early 90s. They will always be a Gen X band.

Sure, they kept putting out great stuff even into the 2000's, and that appeals to the Millennials. But that doesn't change who Radiohead is, generation-wise.

If tommorrow Mick Jagger puts out a solo that's really edgy and hip and appeals to young people, that doesn't suddenly make him a Millennial artist.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Radiohead came to fame in the early 90s. They will always be a Gen X band.

Sure, they kept putting out great stuff even into the 2000's, and that appeals to the Millennials. But that doesn't change who Radiohead is, generation-wise.

If tommorrow Mick Jagger puts out a solo that's really edgy and hip and appeals to young people, that doesn't suddenly make him a Millennial artist.

When you put it like that... the whole idea of generational "ownership" of musicians (who may themselves not even be of that generation) is kinda fucking stupid.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

well that's quite a stretch -- the rolling stones are the quintessential boomer era band. i think you really have to look at when an act was in its most meaningful era to see where it fits. of course many cross generations, but not in the impact on the culture they had at their peaks.

I'm saying it's not so black and white with a band like the Stones. Yes, they were at their creative peak in the 60's and 70's when the Boomers were in their formative years but their influence and reach didn't end there. Same thing with the Beatles. Their music still was on high rotation when I was in my teens and 20's and turn on any classic rock station now and you'll still hear them often. Just because an 18 year-old is bombarded with Ed Sheeran and Post Malone doesn't mean they listen to or care about Ed Sheeran and Post Malone. They could be into SRV or Pink Floyd. I'm an X'er and Floyd's DSOTM is hugely influential to me and I wasn't even born when it was released.

[10023]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Radiohead came to fame in the early 90s. They will always be a Gen X band.

Sure, they kept putting out great stuff even into the 2000's, and that appeals to the Millennials. But that doesn't change who Radiohead is, generation-wise.

If tommorrow Mick Jagger puts out a solo that's really edgy and hip and appeals to young people, that doesn't suddenly make him a Millennial artist.

Mid-‘90s band. And I think you’ve got your generations mixed up. Millennials listened to new music in the 1990s, not the 2000s.

People get into bands when they’re like 12 or 13. By the end of high school one’s favorite music is pretty established.

The first Millennials were born in 1981, which makes them 12 when Pablo Honey came out, and 16 when OK Computer came out (which is when Radiohead really blew up). Most Gen X’ers were too old for Radiohead and didn’t really “get” them, at least post-OK Computer.

[Steely Dan]

it was christmas 1990. i was 14 years old.

i asked for and received the original led zeppelin boxed set (the 4-CD set with the crop circles on the cover).

my young teenage mind was blown. LZ proceeded to be my favorite band throughout my high school years (and is still one of my all-time favorites to this day).

then flash forward to 1996 when i got my hands on steely dan's boxed set "Citizen Steely Dan" in college and my mind was blown all over again.

these things definitely don't fit into neat little discreet boxes (well, other than the neat little boxed sets themselves ).

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by 10023

Mid-‘90s band. And I think you’ve got your generations mixed up. Millennials listened to new music in the 1990s, not the 2000s.

People get into bands when they’re like 12 or 13. By the end of high school one’s favorite music is pretty established.

The first Millennials were born in 1981, which makes them 12 when Pablo Honey came out, and 16 when OK Computer came out (which is when Radiohead really blew up). Most Gen X’ers were too old for Radiohead and didn’t really “get” them, at least post-OK Computer.

Ahhh, moving the goal post sure makes things convenient.

I was 16 when "Creep" came out but somehow I was already too old for Radiohead to be the music of my generation. Sure, you got me there...

[10023]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Ahhh, moving the goal post sure makes things convenient.

I was 16 when "Creep" came out but somehow I was already too old for Radiohead to be the music of my generation. Sure, you got me there...

The problem is the rigidity of your definitions.

You’re toward the younger end of Gen X (1965-1980), I’m definitely toward the older end of Gen Y/Millennial (1981-1996). We’re about six years apart then, and closer in age to each other than to other members of our “cohorts”. So we’re going to overlap on some stuff (like Radiohead), but not on other stuff (like Guns ‘n Roses, or the Killers). It’s pretty simple.

But I still think Radiohead is more of a Millennial band than a Gen X one. Most of Gen X was in college or older when Creep came out. They weren’t listening to awkward teenager emo rock.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by 10023

People get into bands when they’re like 12 or 13. By the end of high school one’s favorite music is pretty established.

That was really not me at all. It was a gradual shift, but what I listened to at 17 was very different from 20. My tastes shifted yet again in my early 20s - more that I was progressively adding on additional genres of music (chamber pop, post-rock, independent hip hop, synthpop, etc) as I aged.

After that point my taste in music has been pretty static. I discover new artists from time to time, but they're within my "lanes" so to speak. I couldn't really imagine seriously listening to something that I liked at age 16, like grindcore or industrial metal, now.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 10023

But I still think Radiohead is more of a Millennial band than a Gen X one. Most of Gen X was in college or older when Creep came out. They weren’t listening to awkward teenager emo rock.

They hit the sweet spot for both generations and I don't think either generation can claim them. I'm 45, Creep came out when I was 19 or 20. They were an instant hit among my peers at the time.

@ Steely, my mom got me in to Steely Dan as a kid and I was way more into Aja than most of the crap from the 80's

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by JManc

@ Steely, my mom got me in to Steely Dan as a kid and I was way more into Aja than most of the crap from the 80's

other than the 1980 release of Gaucho, they weren't really a thing in the 80s.



Steely Dan studio albums:

Can't Buy a Thrill (1972)

Countdown to Ecstasy (1973)

Pretzel Logic (1974)

Katy Lied (1975)

The Royal Scam (1976)

Aja (1977)

Gaucho (1980)


**** BIG GIANT GAP ****


Two Against Nature (2000)

Everything Must Go (2003)

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by 10023

The problem is the rigidity of your definitions.

You’re toward the younger end of Gen X (1965-1980), I’m definitely toward the older end of Gen Y/Millennial (1981-1996). We’re about six years apart then, and closer in age to each other than to other members of our “cohorts”. So we’re going to overlap on some stuff (like Radiohead), but not on other stuff (like Guns ‘n Roses, or the Killers). It’s pretty simple.

But I still think Radiohead is more of a Millennial band than a Gen X one. Most of Gen X was in college or older when Creep came out. They weren’t listening to awkward teenager emo rock.

im not going to contribute to the ownership claim but i will say that my 21st birthday concert in the earlier 00s was radiohead, and everyone else there was 18-? but skewed younger at the time. one might even argue that there is a “radiohead” generation that laps early mils and late x’rs. i’d go with that. my best friend is young gen x and theres zilch of a generation gap.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

other than the 1980 release of Gaucho, they weren't really a thing in the 80s.

I know but for some reason, they 'discovered' that album later on (~'85) and always had it playing.

[Steely Dan]

^ to each their own.

Gaucho is my 2nd or 3rd favorite SD album after Aja (Aja is clearly their pinnacle achievement).

i can listen to "babylon sisters", "hey nineteen" and "time out of mind" all day long.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

"babylon sisters", "hey nineteen" and "time out of mind"

great tunes.

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by CIA

Neighborhoods are in a constant state of change. It's a normal economic cycle. America is well over retailed, and in 10-years all those vacant storefronts will be home to something new.

America maybe, but not NYC. NYC is very under retailed. I don't see why people complain about store fronts. Here is a simple rule of thumb:

Residential apartments sit vacant for 1-2 months with the leases of 1-3 years.
Commercial properties sit vacant for 1-2 years with the leases lasting 15-30 years.

This is nothing unusual. In fact, this vacancy 'problem' is vastly exaggerated, even in NYC.

[Busy Bee]

I am 36. Born in 1982. The youngest Gen X or the oldest millennial according to all the charts. OK Computer was released in 1997. I asked my uncle for it for Christmas. I thought it was a beautiful album but didn't really appreciate it fully until later after my musical tastes had matured a bit. Which sort of plays into what others are saying that it early Radiohead belongs more to Gen X becuase they continued being fans with their later work along with a younger audience as well. At the time I didn't realize what an acclaimed album it would become. I was more into =w=eezer and punk rock at the time. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

What does all this have to do with empty NY storefronts again?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

What does all this have to do with empty NY storefronts again?

All the record stores disappeared!

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

When you put it like that... the whole idea of generational "ownership" of musicians (who may themselves not even be of that generation) is kinda fucking stupid.

Because generations are kind of stupid to work with. Cohorts might be better.

If you are 12-16, the music that excited you then will always excite you. Songs after that date can come and go on whims and after the age of 30, the new music can seem alien and never as exciting. In forty years, you will have seniors blasting Linkin Park on their headphones as they battle dementia and Alzheimers.

[Steely Dan]

^ LOL!

when you hear Paul's Boutique blasting out of the windows of some chicago old folk's home in 2062 (god willing), you'll know where i am.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

when you hear Paul's Boutique blasting out of the windows of some chicago old folk's home in 2062 (god willing), you'll know where i am.

Paul's Boutique has really stood the test of time. Recently listened to it in full for first time in like 20 years and it's still fantastic.