YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[mezzanine]

WTF?

WOW air, Iceland's only ultra-low cost airline, is expanding its Canadian services by opening a new route in Vancouver. Starting June 2019, there will be six weekly flights out of Vancouver International Airport (YVR) with one-way fares to Reykjavik starting for as low as $129.

On A321 neos. Connections available to Tel Aviv and Delhi. Nice to see some downward price pressure on TATL fares but we’ll see how long this lasts..


https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/wo...next-canadian-destination-698187401.html

This may change ACs YVR-DUB plans as WOW is pushing this heavily to Irish markets. Would AC move away from rouge on this route? Or reduce/exit entirely

WOW air's Director of Communications Svanhvít Fridriksdóttir said: “We know Canada, and in particular Vancouver, is hugely popular among Irish emigrants.

"We are delighted to be able to offer them a more affordable way to travel, whether that’s coming home to visit friends and family or allowing loved ones to cross the Atlantic and visit relatives in their new homes.”

https://www.dublinlive.ie/lifestyle/travel/wow-air-dublin-vancouver-cheap-15311840

[connect2source]

Great new!! Just flew WOW STN ( London Stansted ) - KEF! Hope the fares are low because it's a bare-bones experience, even their buy-on-board had run out of most food items. No in-flight entertainment of any kind not even streaming or wifi.

This will certainly lower fares to Iceland, time to head back for a longer visit.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by casper

The A330 are an optimal aircraft for Canada to Europe. They don't have the range to do Asia or the Pacific. My understanding is the operating cost is comparable to the Dreamliner, they already own a few and can get some used one at a good price. The A330 are based in Montreal, while the Dreamliner is based on Toronto and Vancouver.

They are not going to be the only Airbus in the AC fleet. AC purchased the C-series (which are now called the A220).

AC also purchased some new A321 in the last three years. So I would expect those to stay for some time.

The Air Canada A333s - 230t MTOW - have a still air range of about 5000 nm. That's theoretically enough for YVR-ICN/NRT, but not much else, TPAC wise.

The A333 pilot base is only in YUL, but that doesn't mean the plane can't fly from YYZ or YVR.

The 787 has 3 bases. YYZ, YVR and YUL.

The A333 operating cost is comparable to the 787 only when you factor in acquisiton costs. It might even have an edge on the 787 from YYZ/YUL to Europe, due to the shorter stage lengths involved. That's the main reason why the plane is based in YUL.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Great new!!.

Rouge came....."BOOOOOOO...go away..."

WOW air comes, YAAAAYYY....

You guys are a weird bunch......

But back on topic: WOW Air adding YVR was a no brainer really, especially if they want good feed for their new flight to DEL.

Hopefully they'll still be around come summer 2019. More competition is always good for the consumer.

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

YVR-DUB is staying Rouge guys, I don't see it changing to a 333.

At this point, With ALG already loaded with one of the new A333s, it's very likely YVR-DUB stays Rouge. There will be a decent slack in the schedule to allow for maintenance of this bird. That's the main reason why YVR got de-rouged. To address reliability issues with the B767, mostly due to running them on a too tight schedule last year.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

WOW Air adding YVR was a no brainer really, especially if they want good feed for their new flight to DEL.

I dunno, WOW is summer seasonal so far to YVR, which is the slow season for VFR.

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

The Air Canada A333s - 230t MTOW - have a still air range of about 5000 nm. That's theoretically enough for YVR-ICN/NRT, but not much else, TPAC wise.

The A333 pilot base is only in YUL, but that doesn't mean the plane can't fly from YYZ or YVR.

The 787 has 3 bases. YYZ, YVR and YUL.

The A333 operating cost is comparable to the 787 only when you factor in acquisiton costs. It might even have an edge on the 787 from YYZ/YUL to Europe, due to the shorter stage lengths involved. That's the main reason why the plane is based in YUL.

AC has operated the A333 on the YVR-NRT in the past. I have flow that route on that aircraft.

[canlynx]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Rouge came....."BOOOOOOO...go away..."

WOW air comes, YAAAAYYY....

You guys are a weird bunch......

I think the thinking is more so that AC mainline > AC rouge, but having rouge/LCC > nothing.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

I dunno, WOW is summer seasonal so far to YVR, which is the slow season for VFR.

Fully expect this route to be year round. No airline has their schedules out past October 2019.

[Johnny Aussie]

Wow!

Didn’t see that coming. They’ve been retreating their North American ops.

Good to see their confidence in YVR too.

This will be YVR’s 25th overseas carrier.

And YVR-Europe will increase to 109 flights per week next summer.

Schedule will be Daily except Saturdays
WW245 Arrives at 1815
WW246 Departs at 1930

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by casper

The A330 are an optimal aircraft for Canada to Europe. They don't have the range to do Asia or the Pacific.

I am on mobile, but isn't China Eastern flying A330 to Shanghai?

[canlynx]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I am on mobile, but isn't China Eastern flying A330 to Shanghai?

They’re flying A332’s, and new ones at that. Most of which have been delivered in the past 5 years, likely with a higher MTOW.

Versus AC’s A333’s, which have less range to begin with, and they were delivered around the turn of the century, when airbus wasn’t offering such high take off weights.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Rouge came....."BOOOOOOO...go away..."

WOW air comes, YAAAAYYY....

You guys are a weird bunch......

But back on topic: WOW Air adding YVR was a no brainer really, especially if they want good feed for their new flight to DEL.

WOW air pull YVR further ahead of YUL in term of foreign carrier count, while Rouge doesn't add to the count

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

WOW air pull YVR further ahead of YUL in term of foreign carrier count, while Rouge doesn't add to the count

Lol. Pulling ahead even further?

In 2019, YUL will be the closest it's been to YVR in terms of foreign airline count. You're mixing up who's catching up to who.

YUL new carriers in the next 8 months:

Aer Lingus
Norwegian
Austrian
TAP (though no official announcement yet)

YVR new carriers:

WOW
Turkish (no official announcement yet)

Sadly, WOW doesn't even contribute to those 17 new destinations by 2020 either....

Edit: Added TK to YVR

[Johnny Aussie]

Regardless. A city the size of YVR in North America to be served by 25 long haul carriers is unprecedented.

A testament to YVR’s market strength.

Despite all the competition WOW chose to fly to YVR. They could have chosen to fly to YYC, YEG or maybe even YWG. Singling out Ireland in their presser is timely. Westjet no doubt relying on YVR’s significant O&D to help their new flight.

As for AC to DUB... their schedules still indicate a rotation with YUL as both YVR and YUL scheds as they currently stand require that as the plane is clearly turning in DUB to support both flights. Neither flight works as a turnaround back to the originating base. The mystery continues... all will be revealed soon.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

WTF?


This may change ACs YVR-DUB plans as WOW is pushing this heavily to Irish markets. Would AC move away from rouge on this route? Or reduce/exit entirely

AC is not one to run away from competition, nor have they at YYZ and YUL, where WOW has been present for a few years now. Shouldn't be any different in YVR.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

As for AC to DUB... their schedules still indicate a rotation with YUL as both YVR and YUL scheds as they currently stand require that as the plane is clearly turning in DUB to support both flights. Neither flights works as a turnaround back to the originating base. The mystery continues... all will be revealed soon.

Indeed. Both YVR and YUL flights arrive in DUB at exactly the same time, 08h30 LCL, and leave DUB at 10h15 LCL. So there is indication there that the plan is for YVR-DUB-YUL-DUB-YVR.

Seems it could stay Rouge 767.

Boooooooooooo.....I mean yaaaaayyyyy.....Or was it boooooooooo..

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I am on mobile, but isn't China Eastern flying A330 to Shanghai?

As was mentioned, I was specifically talking about the A330-300 (A333).

The A332 has significantly more range than the A333, since the former has center fuel tanks, and the latter, until recently, didn't.

With the 242t A330-300s, Airbus activated the center fuel tank feature as well on the larger sibling, giving it a range of 6,350nm ( over 1,350 nm more, or 3 hours more range than AC's A333s.)

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl...ake-off-weight-and-fuel-capacity-379583/

It's amazing what Airbus has done with the A333.

TS has a 23 year old A333 with a 215t MTOW. (max ~ 8000 km range)
AC's A333s, slightly younger, but still relatively old, are at 230t, (max range 9260 km)
Latest version coming out of Toulouse is 242t with a range of 11,750 km.

[Johnny Aussie]

AC mainline preferred to AC rouge.

Luckily most YVR rouge routes have converted to mainline. Much better service for the traveller.

There were so few options left where rouge would work for YVR. Asia - no opportunities other than secondary Japanese cities but that experiment doesn’t appear desirable or viable. The one viable option moved to mainline - good choice!

Europe... yeah sure maybe GLA and MAN... maybe a crack at BCN and FCO. Marginal opportunities.
Rouge options at YVR very limited at best. Reopening a rouge base at YVR for a very limited list of destinations not an overall good strategy.gone

Unfortunate NGO’s gone but as I said more of a reflection on NGO’s inability to be any sort of TransPac player versus YVR.

And MCO? The sky is falling!! Every other rouge destination in North America / Hawaii gone/going mainline except LAS. Great result!

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC mainline preferred to AC rouge.

Luckily most YVR rouge routes have converted to mainline. Much better service for the traveller.

There were so few options left where rouge would work for YVR. Asia - no opportunities other than secondary Japanese cities but that experiment doesn’t appear desirable or viable. The one viable option moved to mainline - good choice!

Europe... yeah sure maybe GLA and MAN... maybe a crack at BCN and FCO. Marginal opportunities.
Rouge options at YVR very limited at best. Reopening a rouge base at YVR for a very limited list of destinations not an overall good strategy.gone

Unfortunate NGO’s gone but as I said more of a reflection on NGO’s inability to be any sort of TransPac player versus YVR.

And MCO? The sky is falling!! Every other rouge destination in North America / Hawaii gone/going mainline except LAS. Great result!

Well, Rouge to GLA, MAN, BCN, and even BOG, LIM are still technically possible as AC already operates them from YYZ and/or YUL. Otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion for Mainline 333 vs Rouge 763 for DUB here...

No chance for Asia though, as it's just too far away from a Rouge base.

[Klazu]

I just booked trip to LAS onboard Air Canada Rouge. My first time onboard them, but it cannot be that bad for a 2-hour trip? I was even considering Allegiant Air from Bellingham, but I just couldn't get myself to justify the hassle for maybe saving a few bucks.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I just booked trip to LAS onboard Air Canada Rouge. My first time onboard them, but it cannot be that bad for a 2-hour trip? I was even considering Allegiant Air from Bellingham, but I just couldn't get myself to justify the hassle for maybe saving a few bucks.

Short haul I wouldn’t really care. Flights under three hours I’m not too fussed.

Long haul - no thanks.