Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Interesting little report on double tracking and corridor preservation for Frontrunner:

https://le.utah.gov/interim/2018/pdf/00003001.pdf

Any word on the big 2 year Frontrunner study that was supposed to be released over the summer?

[Hatman]

Thanks for posting those slides! I hear the FrontRuner double-track/electrification study is just running late. I have no idea if that is good or bad news. I want to believe they are tailoring their results to get the optimal amount of funding, but that's just me being optimistic.

Let's go through the slides:
First is Vineyard. That station should start construction sometime within the next year or so. It is interesting to see the freight railroad realignment in that area. I have not been a fan of the whole realignment idea since it would potentially ruin that route for a future TRAX line, but if they're working towards having it converge at Vineyard for a future TRAX-FrontRunner interchange point, I guess that's OK. Not optimal, since they would converge at Orem anyway, but still OK. This is fine.

The UP-Tintic connector - I'm glad to see they're sticking with the 70 MPH option rather than the proposed 50 mph curve. Hopefully they can get the ROW purchased soon so that this is no longer in danger of being built over.

Corridor Preservation - Future of FrontRunner:
I like how they have thought through the process of which areas need double-track the most, but a chain is only as strong as its weakest link and ultimately a fully double-tracked system will be required. None of the top two options will unlock the rail system's full potential, which would be a waste of the public's existing investment.

Payson Extension - I'm wary that this is being discussed now, even though I think it is a great idea. I'm worried that if too much effort is made on expansion there will be less money available for improvements (two tracks and electrifying). But if the one does not come at the cost of the other, I'm all for this. Note that this extension is being planned as single-track line from the beginning, even though UTA owns the entire ROW and has the space for two tracks. I remember reading a while back that UTA has no plans to ever run trains more frequently than every hour on this alignment, which makes sense with the population density of the area right now... but it will look pretty silly if the rest of the line is double-tracked and electrified and has trains running ever 5-10 minutes.

Santaquin extension - Please do nothing more than preserve the ROW. Preservation is important because once again the FrontRunner line will have to create a new ROW between the Tintic branch and the UP tracks, but beyond that I think we can all agree that this would be a misapplication of resources.

Brigham City/Box Elder County extension:
I'm glad that UTA appears to have settled on buying their own ROW beside the UP tracks. The fact that they are getting a 40' ROW is great news, since that amount of space will allow them to eventually build a second track (this first design appears to be like the Payson extension - 1 track with trains planned for no more than once per hour operation). Again, I'm wary that this effort will distract from the key effort of improving what is already existing, but if not I'm all for this - with one exception.
I really hate the location they propose for the Brigham City Terminal, and I HATE how they are still planning on a terminal. Brigham City is a silly place to end FrontRunner, even sillier than Santaquin, because just another 35 miles away is Logan. I don't even need to go into why Logan is the better terminal, it is plainly obvious, and the barriers which prevent UTA from considering going to Logan are all political, not practical. I hope that with UDOT funding now an option that a Logan extension becomes less difficult to coordinate between the agencies/counties, because that needs to be built far more than an extension to Santaquin.

Again, thanks for the slides, and I hope we hear more soon.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Why not do a high speed express line between the major hubs to increase ridership/capacity?

4 stops quick trip times
Ogden to SLC 38 miles
SLC to Lehi(or draper)28 miles
Lehi(or draper)to Provo 17 miles

It seems to me that this would be way faster than I-15. Isn't that what people want?

According to Google
Those trip times via FR are
Og-SLC 56min
Slc-Lehi 34 min
Lehi-Provo 28 min

1 hour 38 mins Ogden to Lehi. Ogden would be the biggest winner here as it would open up more of the workforce to consider Ogden for housing.

[Makid]

I am not sure if this has ever been seen or discussed here:

https://www.udot.utah.gov/main/uconowner.gf?n=40607716651440444

This is about a Study that was done by UDoT a few years ago and it has some feedback on 3 scenarios from local leaders, UTA, and some from the State.

Based on some current plans from UDoT and the State Legislature, they have opted to go forward with a modified version of Scenario 3.

To my knowledge, they have dropped the Elevated I-15 segment as the public outcry was too much.

Key transit points though are:

Doubletrack/electrify FrontRunner commuter rail
Add infill rail transit stations (Bluffdale was removed once the Prison relocation was a done deal. The Trax Lines through the area were added however. Centerville is still an option.)
New arterial HOV and BRT lanes with grade ‐ separated intersections I am not sure about widening Redwood and State Street in places but the grade separated HOV and BRT lanes at 4500 South, 5400 South, 7000 South, 9000 South, and 10600 South do sound interesting.
"Cycle super highway" network
Buffered bike lanes/cycle tracks on selected arterials
Mobility Hubs Proposed mobility hub locations for WFCCS are downtown intermodal, Murray Central FrontRunner/TRAX station, and proposed infill station in Bluffdale (now prison redevelopment site in Draper).

Lastly are the items that are constant on all 3 scenarios:

Increased transit frequency during peak period Increase frequency of TRAX, FrontRunner, and/or buses in corridor. - The goal here is to cut the wait times in 1/2 if possible (15 to 7.5, 10 to 5, and so forth for all transit forms).
Transit pricing Analyze as free fares. - Even then, they were looking at Free Fares.

Overall, it does look like UDoT and UTA have been coordinating their approach towards the overall 2050 goals for a few years now and the Legislation this year will help align it faster with the State backing transit projects while also making driving more costly (raising the gas tax).

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Our State policy seems to be "in order to avoid politically hard choices, we choose ALL of the above". Massive spending on road and transit infrastructure. That seems like a really expensive option. I would rather see all of the transit options funded and front loaded and then if there is evidence that more money needs to be spent on road capacity we address that. I am also for increasing the efficiency of the existing road network, but a lot of those choices appear to be too politically difficult such as dynamic pricing of the freeway. With this much spending I would not be real optimistic if I were another department in the State who is hoping for funding increases over time.

[i-215]

I know this sounds anecdotal, but I've lived in Portland (transit-only investment) and I live in Southern California now (car-only investment, outside downtown).

Both Portland and SoCal — for mobility. Salt Lake found the secret sauce: Throw money at everything. I don't think that's political weakness, but rather brilliance. Improve travel times via every mode.

[Makid]

Along the Wasatch Front, there will be less investment in new roads over time. Costs do increase due to complexity increasing but everything now is mostly about maximizing capacity.

The biggest thing though is that the State has come to understand that transit is key to mobility along the Wasatch Front due to the nature of the natural environment. We are limited to a North/South linear sprawl but are also culturally drawn to density. Even though some may argue the opposite, growing up in large families surrounded by large families creates a denser environment in the suburbs than other suburbs.

The issue on transit has always been cost due to the larger family size. With the State requirement that UTA charge fares as a public/private hybrid, this required fare increases or service cuts. With the recent change to begin to move UTA into a State agency - Debt being the main reason holding it back, fares can be covered by the State directly or via Sales/Property taxes indirectly.

Additionally, the State now has the ability to provide great PR. Come the 2019 session, they can raise the Gas Tax by $0.10 for roads, force a sales tax increase on Utah County for roads and transit (40/40/20), and then raise the sales tax along the Wasatch Front another .25% (including Tooele and Brigham City) to pay for FrontRunner double track and electrifying but also changing UTA to a Free Fare system starting in 2020 with the Gas Tax and Sales Taxes starting in July of 2019.

Utah County and UTA portions of the 40/40/20 sales tax could be forced toward the Blue Line extension to Lehi/Orem. The same could be said for a portion of SL Counties Portion only starting in July of 2019.

As the current debt comes down and revenue increases, that could be used for both additional routes and additional frequencies on existing routes.

[Makid]

APTA has released the Q2 transit ridership numbers:

https://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2018-Q2-Ridership-APTA.pdf

Just to preface: FrontRunner - Yay. All else... Ugh!

FrontRunner: 17.4K. Up 1.67% from Q2 2017.
Trax: 56.7. Down 4.14% from Q2 2017.
Bus: 63.0K Down 5.54% from Q2 2017.

Total: 145.3K Down 3.72% from Q2 2017.

The Quarterly Total is the lowest it has been since Q3 2012.

Going forward we will start to see the effects of UVX and the BYU/UVU 100,000 passes that allow free rides on all of UTA. The full effects of UVX won't be felt until the line is running in its dedicated lanes later this year (hopefully). These effects should be visible more on Bus and FrontRunner I would expect.

The next changes won't happen until the August 2019 change day. That is when the SLC Transit Master Plan begins to be phased in with additional routes, 15 frequencies on more routes, extended hours (early morning and late night), and includes better weekend coverage. We will also see additional changes from UTA as they get their share of the 40/40/20 beginning in July and will implement changes on the August change day.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by i-215

I know this sounds anecdotal, but I've lived in Portland (transit-only investment) and I live in Southern California now (car-only investment, outside downtown).

Both Portland and SoCal — for mobility. Salt Lake found the secret sauce: Throw money at everything. I don't think that's political weakness, but rather brilliance. Improve travel times via every mode.

Maybe you are right, but it doesn't sound fiscally sustainable. I don't want no money spent on roads, I just want those limited dollars to skew much more to that end.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

Maybe you are right, but it doesn't sound fiscally sustainable. I don't want no money spent on roads, I just want those limited dollars to skew much more to that end.

When a state is growing at this pace not investing in transportation at every opportunity is fiscally unsustainable. It will negatively impact economic growth and could shutdown progress in so many areas.

Would silicon Valley be centered on L.A. if they had invested more aggressively in transportation? Would Silicon Slopes be a thing if the bay area had? Wold America be America without the transcontinental railroad and the interstate highway system?

Plus anything we build now is going to have another 2 million people to help pay for it soon enough. We need to build our transportation system for 5 million not 3.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

When a state is growing at this pace not investing in transportation at every opportunity is fiscally unsustainable. It will negatively impact economic growth and could shutdown progress in so many areas.

Would silicon Valley be centered on L.A. if they had invested more aggressively in transportation? Would Silicon Slopes be a thing if the bay area had? Wold America be America without the transcontinental railroad and the interstate highway system?

Plus anything we build now is going to have another 2 million people to help pay for it soon enough. We need to build our transportation system for 5 million not 3.

I am not advocating for underfunding transport, just being more to transit rather than roads. It would be great in theory to build for 5 mil. now, but that population isn’t expected to arrive until 2050 and after 30 years we would be rebuilding much of that.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Makid

APTA has released the Q2 transit ridership numbers:

https://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2018-Q2-Ridership-APTA.pdf

Just to preface: FrontRunner - Yay. All else... Ugh!

FrontRunner: 17.4K. Up 1.67% from Q2 2017.
Trax: 56.7. Down 4.14% from Q2 2017.
Bus: 63.0K Down 5.54% from Q2 2017.

Total: 145.3K Down 3.72% from Q2 2017.

The Quarterly Total is the lowest it has been since Q3 2012.

Going forward we will start to see the effects of UVX and the BYU/UVU 100,000 passes that allow free rides on all of UTA. The full effects of UVX won't be felt until the line is running in its dedicated lanes later this year (hopefully). These effects should be visible more on Bus and FrontRunner I would expect.

The next changes won't happen until the August 2019 change day. That is when the SLC Transit Master Plan begins to be phased in with additional routes, 15 frequencies on more routes, extended hours (early morning and late night), and includes better weekend coverage. We will also see additional changes from UTA as they get their share of the 40/40/20 beginning in July and will implement changes on the August change day.

Has Salt Lake City released exact route-by-route information about what's going to get increased frequency and earlier/later hours? I know there was some detail in the transit master plan, but I'm wondering if they've confirmed/expanded on the information presented there.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Has Salt Lake City released exact route-by-route information about what's going to get increased frequency and earlier/later hours? I know there was some detail in the transit master plan, but I'm wondering if they've confirmed/expanded on the information presented there.

They have, I will see if I can find it over the weekend. Some don't have routes numbers yet as they will be new routes to UTA.

I should also note that Salt Lake City hasn't yet stated what they will do with their share of the 40/40/20 split come July of 2019 when they will receive it. Current estimates are that the revenue will be between $5 Million and $7 Million a year and it can only be used for Roads and Transit.

I have talked with a few City Council members and they ideas that range from the Downtown and Granary Streetcar lines to finish double tracking and extending the S-Line to 11th East and 21st South and complete the Bus upgrades/enhancements with the Trax Black Line running.

With next year being a Mayoral Election year, I would love to hear what the various candidates think should be done.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

I am not advocating for underfunding transport, just being more to transit rather than roads. It would be great in theory to build for 5 mil. now, but that population isn’t expected to arrive until 2050 and after 30 years we would be rebuilding much of that.

We are a state of 3 million looking to add another 2. It will take us 30 years to build that infrastructure but any project in the planning stages now has to be designed to absorb that growtg. We can't do things like we have in Lehi. We can't afford to do major projects just for them to be inadequate and have to be rebuilt within a decade.

I think that is what UDOT is trying to do. What may at first seem like overkill is going look just right 20 years from now.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

I think that is what UDOT is trying to do. What may at first seem like overkill is going look just right 20 years from now.

Bingo. As wide as Point of the Mountain is now, there are plans to build parallel truck lanes over the hill. Then there will be plans to (potentially) add Texas-style frontage roads from 90th Sandy to MVC 2100 N Lehi.

It sounds stupid wide now, but when the metro is double the size, there will certainly be the demand.

I'd like to see MVC go south to Nephi and create a total bypass of I-15 entirely.

[Makid]

Hmm, my post from earlier didn't take.

The initial routes for 15 minute frequencies and extended morning, evening hours and including the longer hours on the weekend are:

1000 North
600 North
200 South
900 South
2100 South

1000 North and 600 North are both new routes from the Transit Master Plan.

[delts145]

Point of the Mountain Commission starts final phase

Karissa Neely - Daily Herald https://www.heraldextra.com/business/loc...814ac14-fd73-5ac6-84b3-576464bef994.html

As plans move forward for the Point of the Mountain area, many stakeholders hope public transit and better transportation options will be top priorities.

The Point of the Mountain Development Commission met recently with landowners, government representatives, business and nonprofit organization executives, and thought leaders from various community sectors to discuss the final phase of the regional vision for the Point of the Mountain. Transit, better north/south and east/west connector roads, air and water quality, and jobs near affordable housing were of most importance for many of those gathered at the commission meeting.

The vision for the Point of the Mountain — which includes communities straddling the corridor as far north as Sandy, and as far south as Saratoga Springs, Lehi and American Fork — includes additional FrontRunner trains and stops, with an extension of TRAX over the mountain on the east side of the freeway. More east/west connections are planned between the freeway and Mountain View Corridor, with a possible high-speed North-South Boulevard connecting areas near the prison site to 2100 in Lehi.

According to Robert Grow, CEO of Envision Utah, Utah has a unique opportunity to develop the Point of the Mountain area. If business, community and political leaders do the right thing, Grow said, revenue and income within the area will grow significantly. According to Envision Utah data, if the area is designed right, as many as 150,000 additional high-paying jobs will come to the area, and the entire area will experience a 12 percent increase in average household income.

“If we fail, we will lose even more jobs than we realize,” Grow said, explaining that for every information technology job that does not come to Utah, Utah loses four related support jobs, eight other jobs in the community and $816,000 in annual personal income across the state.

The commission is in Phase 3 of the process, addressing funding mechanisms for the roughly $11 billion needed for implementation of the vision. Jon Bronson, senior vice president and managing director of Zions Bank, spoke briefly at the meeting regarding funding, and explained there is currently not a funding mechanism in place, and the teams involved in the process are exploring several options. Options may include public and private funding routes.

A map from the Point of the Mountain Development Commission's regional vision shows roads, transit, trails and other services through the Point of the Mountain area...Point of the Mountain Development Commission

.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Makid

Hmm, my post from earlier didn't take.

The initial routes for 15 minute frequencies and extended morning, evening hours and including the longer hours on the weekend are:

1000 North
600 North
200 South
900 South
2100 South

1000 North and 600 North are both new routes from the Transit Master Plan.

Certainly a good start. I hope they don't forget the north-south routes either. Some routes could use later times at the very least. Or can they not take those into account because they extend into other cities?

[RC14]

Originally Posted by delts145

Point of the Mountain Commission starts final phase

Karissa Neely - Daily Herald https://www.heraldextra.com/business/loc...814ac14-fd73-5ac6-84b3-576464bef994.html

As plans move forward for the Point of the Mountain area, many stakeholders hope public transit and better transportation options will be top priorities.

The Point of the Mountain Development Commission met recently with landowners, government representatives, business and nonprofit organization executives, and thought leaders from various community sectors to discuss the final phase of the regional vision for the Point of the Mountain. Transit, better north/south and east/west connector roads, air and water quality, and jobs near affordable housing were of most importance for many of those gathered at the commission meeting.

The vision for the Point of the Mountain — which includes communities straddling the corridor as far north as Sandy, and as far south as Saratoga Springs, Lehi and American Fork — includes additional FrontRunner trains and stops, with an extension of TRAX over the mountain on the east side of the freeway. More east/west connections are planned between the freeway and Mountain View Corridor, with a possible high-speed North-South Boulevard connecting areas near the prison site to 2100 in Lehi.

According to Robert Grow, CEO of Envision Utah, Utah has a unique opportunity to develop the Point of the Mountain area. If business, community and political leaders do the right thing, Grow said, revenue and income within the area will grow significantly. According to Envision Utah data, if the area is designed right, as many as 150,000 additional high-paying jobs will come to the area, and the entire area will experience a 12 percent increase in average household income.

“If we fail, we will lose even more jobs than we realize,” Grow said, explaining that for every information technology job that does not come to Utah, Utah loses four related support jobs, eight other jobs in the community and $816,000 in annual personal income across the state.

The commission is in Phase 3 of the process, addressing funding mechanisms for the roughly $11 billion needed for implementation of the vision. Jon Bronson, senior vice president and managing director of Zions Bank, spoke briefly at the meeting regarding funding, and explained there is currently not a funding mechanism in place, and the teams involved in the process are exploring several options. Options may include public and private funding routes.

A map from the Point of the Mountain Development Commission's regional vision shows roads, transit, trails and other services through the Point of the Mountain area...Point of the Mountain Development Commission

.

I couldn't help but notice that this plan appears to call for a new TRAX line through the prison site but doesn't call for an extension of the blue line along existing rail ROW. I don't like that.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by RC14

I couldn't help but notice that this plan appears to call for a new TRAX line through the prison site but doesn't call for an extension of the blue line along existing rail ROW. I don't like that.

Last I heard the blue line is supposed to be extended as UTA already owns the ROW. The new line would meet up with the future Red Line extension and then that line (Red Line) would meet up with the Blue Line around the Plurasight HQ in Draper.

The map hasn't been updated since the last legislative session that started the move of UTA to the State and allowed State Funds to be used for transit projects.