PHILADELPHIA | THE LAUREL @ 1911 Walnut | 604 FT | 48 FLOORS - Page 95

reparcsyks · #**1881** Posted **Oct 4, 2018, 2:13 PM**

Goodbye to one of the most horrible grass lots and parking lots in CC. Hello to the rejuvenation of the beautiful historic buildings next door. And HELLO to THE LAUREL, which I predict will be even more stunning than the renderings.

Urbanthusiat · #**1882** Posted **Oct 4, 2018, 2:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

This was changed to 599' in the CDR proposal. Probably has something to do with height limits in the area.

I don’t think so, I don’t think there’s anything that limits this parcel to 600 feet. It probably just worked out that way based on what the felt the market can handle. A developer isn’t going to add a foot onto a building “just cause” it’d be cool to have a six hundred footer. They don’t care about that they’ll only add height to add floors.

Jayfar · #**1883** Posted **Oct 4, 2018, 2:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

This was changed to 599' in the CDR proposal. Probably has something to do with height limits in the area.

It all ties in to Floor Area Ratio (ratio of a building's total floor area to the size of the piece of land upon which it is built) as specified in the zoning code. I don't know that they received any variances for height, but I'm sure unity-of-use of the several parcels involved helped them get most of the height they needed. The property is zoned CMX-4. Maximum Floor Area Ratio is 500%; up to an additional 700% with bonuses.

Quote:

There is one community commercial mixed use (CMX-3) and two Center City commercial mixed-use (CMX-4 and CMX-5) zoning districts. These zoning districts accommodate larger-scale commercial uses and retail. These zoning districts also allow for additional size based on bonuses providing extra features like mixed-income housing or green building technology. Additional zoning controls determine the overall bulk and shape of CMX-4 and CMX-5 buildings.

See page 18 in the manual:
https://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/resou...ng%20Code_Quick%20Reference%20Manual.pdf

Londonee · #**1884** Posted **Oct 4, 2018, 3:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frontst17

I dunno guys, for us long term Philadelphians, this may be the dopest dope to happen in a long time. Very happy it’s happening and even happier it’s happening in the right way.

Here, here.

I'd add the redevelopment of 19th and Chestnut (The Harper) as a huge, huge deal as well. Before there was the shiny target, there was a weird smelling Qdoba underneath a derelict building, next to multiple weeded lots that abutted the rusted, hulking shell of the Boyd. I remember a Christmas party at Devil's Alley's 2nd Floor maybe 10 years ago and the view from the window is an overwhelming picture of the dilapidated Boyd exterior. Out of towners were like, where the f*&k am I.

Now if we can only get something to happen with the derelict PHA HQ just up the street...

Jawnadelphia · #**1885** Posted **Oct 4, 2018, 4:03 PM**

^Also, and I know it's been brought up before -- but I can't see how the surface parking lot at 20th and Walnut is not developed in the near future with The Harper and The Laurel going up so close. It must be an unbelievably valuable parcel of land. (Parkway owns it).

Londonee · #**1886** Posted **Oct 4, 2018, 4:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

^Also, and I know it's been brought up before -- but I can't see how the surface parking lot at 20th and Walnut is not developed in the near future with The Harper and The Laurel going up so close. It must be an unbelievably valuable parcel of land. (Parkway owns it).

Yeah Parkway has been squatting on it - watching it's value skyrocket over the last decade or so as Center City has continued to explode. I think it has to be the most valuable price per square foot property left undeveloped in the city now, right?

Knight Hospitaller · #**1887** Posted **Oct 4, 2018, 4:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

I don’t think so, I don’t think there’s anything that limits this parcel to 600 feet. It probably just worked out that way based on what the felt the market can handle. A developer isn’t going to add a foot onto a building “just cause” it’d be cool to have a six hundred footer. They don’t care about that they’ll only add height to add floors.

THere's also the concept of "odd pricing." Nobody is going to buy/rent there based on 599 vs. 601, but something beginning with a 5 might make NIMBYs and other objectors feel slightly less threatened than something beginning with a 6. It's like $9.99 feeling like a better deal than $10 even.

Nova08 · #**1888** Posted **Oct 4, 2018, 5:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

^Also, and I know it's been brought up before -- but I can't see how the surface parking lot at 20th and Walnut is not developed in the near future with The Harper and The Laurel going up so close. It must be an unbelievably valuable parcel of land. (Parkway owns it).

But didn't we just have the Harper practically cut by a third when all was said and done? That has to speak to a some hesitation around saturation in a short time frame.

PhillyEngineer · #**1889** Posted **Oct 6, 2018, 9:50 PM**

Taken 10/6/2018:

McBane · #**1890** Posted **Oct 7, 2018, 4:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

FINALLT!!! Such a long time coming. This and the empty lot at 1919 Market were the two most offensive lots in the city. To see them both filled in the same boom is nothing short of glorious.

This is such a fantastic tower. Pumped it’s happening. Cool to see this and the Harper under construction right next to each other. What a transformation for this stretch of Samson Street.

Yes, agreed 100%, although 1919 still sucks. Worst remaining lot in the city? Disney Hole has my vote - what other lot in the city has its own nickname?

Gonzo the Great · #**1891** Posted **Oct 7, 2018, 11:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

Yes, agreed 100%, although 1919 still sucks. Worst remaining lot in the city? Disney Hole has my vote - what other lot in the city has its own nickname?

City Wide · #**1892** Posted **Oct 7, 2018, 8:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

Yes, agreed 100%, although 1919 still sucks. Worst remaining lot in the city? Disney Hole has my vote - what other lot in the city has its own nickname?

Great question! The Disney hole is certainly near the top. SLS as a site with a hole in it has to be in the running

Inquizative · #**1893** Posted **Oct 7, 2018, 9:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by City Wide

Great question! The Disney hole is certainly near the top. SLS as a site with a hole in it has to be in the running

The SLS is king of the holes. At least the Disney hole is a parking lot. Tore down Philly International Records right across the street from the Kimmel Center.

Mr Saturn64 · #**1894** Posted **Oct 8, 2018, 4:11 PM**

Disney Hole is pretty bad. Probably not as bad as DisneyQuest would have been, given how the Chicago one went. SLS hole is pretty bad as well. I doubt anything will be done here in the near future, but the big parking lot next to the African American Museum also looks bad.

Londonee · #**1895** Posted **Oct 8, 2018, 4:36 PM**

Worst empty lot is unquestionably DisneyQuest. We're now in the 3rd decade of Goldenberg Group ownership of this parcel...

Most valuable price per square foot (and therefore zero reasons why it shouldn't be developed immediately) is 20th and Walnut.

Kfmcshan · #**1896** Posted **Oct 8, 2018, 5:22 PM**

the 15th and Cherry St parking lot is not the worst but is huge and a few blocks from city hall

Philly-Drew · #**1897** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 11:36 AM**

As bad as the Disney parking lot is, the SLS hole is just absolutely obnoxious. My vote is the SLS hole is the worst.

McBane · #**1898** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 1:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Londonee

Worst empty lot is unquestionably DisneyQuest. We're now in the 3rd decade of Goldenberg Group ownership of this parcel...

Most valuable price per square foot (and therefore zero reasons why it shouldn't be developed immediately) is 20th and Walnut.

I agree with this. 20th and Walnut is embarrassing given its proximity to the square.

But Disney Hole wins on size, age, and worst of all, the fact that there's nothing on the horizon - it will likely remain a parking lot for the foreseeable future. At least with SLS, there appears to be a light at the end of the tunnel, at least according to certain posters in the know (whom I have no reason to doubt).

Londonee · #**1899** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 2:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kfmcshan

the 15th and Cherry St parking lot is not the worst but is huge and a few blocks from city hall

Another Parkway Lot. Are we seeing a trend here?

The worst part is with these 2 particular Parkway lots is that there's not even a sniff of development - just two feathers in their suburban caps. Really not sure why the city continues to bend over backwards for these carpetbaggers - they should adjust the tax rates on their properties till the point that everyday they operate a parking lot on the site they are barely breaking even.

At least with Goldenberg and Disneyquest, we've seen them try a few things over the years that they just couldn't get off the ground so you have to think something is in the works there.

Urbanthusiat · #**1900** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 3:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Londonee

Another Parkway Lot. Are we seeing a trend here?

The worst part is with these 2 particular Parkway lots is that there's not even a sniff of development - just two feathers in their suburban caps. Really not sure why the city continues to bend over backwards for these carpetbaggers - they should adjust the tax rates on their properties till the point that everyday they operate a parking lot on the site they are barely breaking even.

I'm sure you're not seriously suggesting that the city discriminate against a particular landowner just because they don't like how they choose to use their land. Mind you Parkway has indeed developed several of their lots. Hanover North Broad and 1706 Rittenhouse come to mind. They've got plans 709 Chestnut and the POD hotel is already under construction. We've seen them put forth plans for Broad and Spring Garden. To say they aren't active in development is patently false.