Place d'Orléans Shopping Centre

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I like how they are making people healthier by maximizing the distance that you have to walk from a bus stop to the front door of the facility.

Why are new public buildings in Ottawa always set so damn far back from the street?

And lots of healthy oxygen from all the trees. To be honest, this rendering doesn't look to me like it's that far back from the street. At any rate, most of the users of this will be arriving by car.

I actually like that this plan has some set-back and landscaping. It makes a break from the desolate monotony along this area of retail park and box store parking lots. I notice the designers are sticking with what looks like a theme for every new school and service building that goes up, of I am not sure what you'd call it? Retro Mod?

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

It looks like nobody has posted a link to Place d'Orleans' redevelopment page which shows renderings and a floor plan of the re-located food court.

http://placedorleans.com/pages/pdo-redevelopment

There is no mention of what will be taking its place on the 2nd floor. The page mentions that the new fall court will open in fall 2019.

Thanks for posting this.

So, that's why the centre aisle has been boarded up. I don't get how Place is still alive. It's like the Monty Python knight who keeps fighting after his limbs have been chopped off. The management has done everything to kill tenants with outrageous leases and it is just no longer a go-to place for mall shopping for most of the area population. It started dying 10 years ago and most days you can shoot a cannon down the mall after the morning walkers are done and not hit a human, with the exception of the Second Cup community seniors hang-out. The last time I had to go in and out there, my lasting impression before exiting was the wine store guy leaning up against his little shop entrance looking depressed - pretty much says it all.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

And lots of healthy oxygen from all the trees. To be honest, this rendering doesn't look to me like it's that far back from the street.

If it's far enough that a person leaving the main entrance stands a good chance of missing the bus that's pulling up to the closest stop, it's too damn far back from the street.

At any rate, most of the users of this will be arriving by car.

And? That's the same BS reason that was given for not locating Civic 2.0 in a transit-friendly locations and situations.

I actually like that this plan has some set-back and landscaping. It makes a break from the desolate monotony along this area of retail park and box store parking lots.

An even better break from parking lots would be to have buildings that "address" and interact directly the street and don't unnecessarily add to walk times and distances.

The health facility itself could act as its own bus shelter, were it not pointlessly moved back so far from that road. All the easier to widen it to 10 lanes in the future, I suppose.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

And lots of healthy oxygen from all the trees.

Is that the only place on the property that could be treed?

Could there not still be trees between the building and the curb, even if the setback were seriously reduced?

No one in any position of planning power and influence in the City of Autowa is capable of thinking like a pedestrian or transit user.

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If it's far enough that a person leaving the main entrance stands a good chance of missing the bus that's pulling up to the closest stop, it's too damn far back from the street.

The artist's rendering does not have a scale, but judging with a good eye for scale if this drawing was done to it, going by the size of the cars and people, etc. the distance from the sidewalk would be about about 40 metres, 50 metres max. That distance takes 1 minute to walk. It's not far. It's about the distance to walk to my neighbour 3 doors down. If someone has a problem missing a bus in that distance, then that person needs more help.

And? That's the same BS reason that was given for not locating Civic 2.0 in a transit-friendly locations and situations.

Sorry, but that sentence is a non sequitur. I have no idea what BS you are on about.

An even better break from parking lots would be to have buildings that "address" and interact directly the street and don't unnecessarily add to walk times and distances.

The health facility itself could act as its own bus shelter, were it not pointlessly moved back so far from that road. All the easier to widen it to 10 lanes in the future, I suppose.

Oookay.

[TheseBoots]

By the way, this is the Place d'Orléans redevelopment thread. It's my fault for bringing up health care in it and thus leading to the digression into off-topic areas. I'll leave it at that and if someone wants to start a new thread on the proposed Orléans Health Hub, have at 'er.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

It looks like nobody has posted a link to Place d'Orleans' redevelopment page which shows renderings and a floor plan of the re-located food court.

http://placedorleans.com/pages/pdo-redevelopment

There is no mention of what will be taking its place on the 2nd floor. The page mentions that the new fall court will open in fall 2019.

Might as well post the others. Looks impressive. I'll definitely be venturing out there. Hopefully it means they're planning on doing something with the rest of the mall soon.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

The artist's rendering does not have a scale, but judging with a good eye for scale if this drawing was done to it, going by the size of the cars and people, etc. the distance from the sidewalk would be about about 40 metres, 50 metres max. That distance takes 1 minute to walk. It's not far.

It's an eternity if your half-hourly bus is just about to pull away.

Sorry, but that sentence is a non sequitur. I have no idea what BS you are on about.

The idea that pedestrian- and transit-unfriendly things are justified because most people drive to the hospital.

Oookay.

What's so odd about the idea that transit shelter could be incorporated into the very design and layout of a public building on a transit-served street?

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It's an eternity if your half-hourly bus is just about to pull away.



The idea that pedestrian- and transit-unfriendly things are justified because most people drive to the hospital.



What's so odd about the idea that transit shelter could be incorporated into the very design and layout of a public building on a transit-served street?

@Uhuniau, It's apparent that you don't live in Orléans (or Kanata ), not that one would need your signature statement to make that clear after conversing with you. The suburban areas live (as in move about, go places) with specific priotities for many varied reasons stemming from why they are where they are, which translates to how best to develop in the burbs.

What you propose has more of an inner-city ring to it, to be frank with you. It has it's place. Just to point out the obvious, "different strokes". If you don't have an idea of how people go about things in a set area, why complain?

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If it's far enough that a person leaving the main entrance stands a good chance of missing the bus that's pulling up to the closest stop, it's too damn far back from the street.

building set back with attractive landscaping that is expected to have positive mental health effects for both employees and patients = bad

building set directly on the street, loss of the above benefits, but uhuniau can leave at 2:29 to catch his 2:30 bus instead of 2:28 = good

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

building set back with attractive landscaping that is expected to have positive mental health effects for both employees and patients = bad

building set directly on the street, loss of the above benefits, but uhuniau can leave at 2:29 to catch his 2:30 bus instead of 2:28 = good

To be fair, there are some legitimate criticisms of the Health Hub site design plan that is shown in that picture.

My main criticism would be that the site is located directly beside a future transit station which is supposed to be where the hydro corridor intersects Mer Bleue Rd, just north of the site.

The building however has been placed at the south of the site, with the parking lot in between it and the future transit station.

[Dundas]

Jimmy the Greek in the new food court please!!!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

What you propose has more of an inner-city ring to it, to be frank with you.

I'm glad you noticed.

It has it's place. Just to point out the obvious, "different strokes". If you don't have an idea of how people go about things in a set area, why complain?

Denser, pedestrian-friendly development belongs everywhere. We can't keep building low-density, sprawling suburbs, with sprawling buildings. It is economically and environmentally unsustainable.

We need to start building suburbs that can adapt to changing social and economic conditions in the decades and centuries to come, stop saddling the current taxpayer and future generations with ongoing maintenance and life-cycle costs, and stop freezing land uses and built forms into mid-20th-century ideas of what is desirable.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

building set back with attractive landscaping that is expected to have positive mental health effects for both employees and patients = bad

Why does that attractive landscaping have to come between the land use and the street?

building set directly on the street, loss of the above benefits, but uhuniau can leave at 2:29 to catch his 2:30 bus instead of 2:28 = good

No, so that John or Jane Doe leaving from their diagnostic appointment, attempting to catch an unpredictably-timed bus, will have a significantly reduced chance of just barely missing it.

I will never understand why so many people are so willing and happy to accept design choices that maximize the likelihood that transit-using people will waste hundreds of hours over the course of their lives waiting for buses.

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I'm glad you noticed.

Denser, pedestrian-friendly development belongs everywhere.

You do realize that pedestrian (meaning a walking person) does not automatically translate to dense(r). Non?

We can't keep building low-density, sprawling suburbs, with sprawling buildings.

Sure we can.

It is economically and environmentally unsustainable.

Sustainability. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

We need to start building suburbs that can adapt to changing social and economic conditions in the decades and centuries to come, stop saddling the current taxpayer and future generations with ongoing maintenance and life-cycle costs, and stop freezing land uses and built forms into mid-20th-century ideas of what is desirable.

The burbs pay most taxes. Now, cut it out.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

The burbs pay most taxes. Now, cut it out.

such compelling arguments

/thread

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

The artist's rendering does not have a scale, but judging with a good eye for scale if this drawing was done to it, going by the size of the cars and people, etc. the distance from the sidewalk would be about about 40 metres, 50 metres max. That distance takes 1 minute to walk. It's not far. It's about the distance to walk to my neighbour 3 doors down. If someone has a problem missing a bus in that distance, then that person needs more help.

I’m guessing that you haven’t ever taken a bus if you think the driver will wait 1 minute at the stop for you to walk to it (assuming he can see you through the trees).

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I’m guessing that you haven’t ever taken a bus if you think the driver will wait 1 minute at the stop for you to walk to it (assuming he can see you through the trees).

I've used buses from Orléans, including the snail routes and the faster commuter routes, not to mention using OCTranspo from other areas of Ottawa including Bayshore. So, I AM familiar with bus driver shit as well as griping about it. It is as old as the hills and happens in every city, by the way. The #94 has only been in existence for a few years and it should have been put in years earlier. Even so, apparently a straight effing line down Innes is still too difficile for the drivers to stay to a schedule. That's life with unions - you deal with it or you get a car if you live in the burbs. Simple.

I am also familiar with bus or other public transport systems in Ontario, the rest of Canada, the US and Europe. Taking all of that i to consideration, to be a complainier in Ottawa just strikes me as the worst case of spoiled myopic laziness.

If you are in the burbs, it's not about a minute. It's a different pace. You get there early, park your ass and wait. I was here before there were (m)any buses.

[TheseBoots]

Originally Posted by Harley613

such compelling arguments

/thread

Glad you had a laugh.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by TheseBoots

The burbs pay most taxes. Now, cut it out.

Actually, the downtown core and inner city areas with all its high value land pays the most taxes. The suburban and rural areas cost the city more in services than it gets in taxes. Downtown is constantly subsidizing the suburbs. That's why the city is trying to get as much as growth as possible from intensification and downtown development.