Edmonton Construction 13 (November 2015)

[Rogie]

Also interesting the sheer number of surface parking lots in the core, even back then.

[Urban recluse]

So many buildings I wish were still standing. Sigh.

[Doppelganger]

^ Others I'm glad that we're rid of, for example the garbage incineration facility in the photo that stood where the Muttart Conservatory stands today.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

The area where the Muttart is now looked so barren.

There's no Shaw Conference Centre
no Westin
no Manulife
no Commerce Place
no Scotia Place
no ECC
no Sutton Place
no Winspear
no Bell
no Canada Place

The James MacDonald Bridge is under construction though.
Plus the Tegler, law court and post office are still around.

[Vixx]

That photo makes Edmonton look bleak in that time period, yikes.

I wonder sometimes how different downtown would be had it not been for WEM. Many vouch that it single handedly killed the life of downtown for decades and while I don't dispute that the mall had a significant impact, I wonder if downtown would be THAT much more different then it is today. Would there be less surface parking lots? More skyscrapers? Less crummy areas? Not sure what the answer is, but I get the feeling downtown would not be this dense and vibrant urban utopia some out there claim it would have been if not for that mall.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Vixx

That photo makes Edmonton look bleak in that time period, yikes.

I wonder sometimes how different downtown would be had it not been for WEM. Many vouch that it single handedly killed the life of downtown for decades and while I don't dispute that the mall had a significant impact, I wonder if downtown would be THAT much more different then it is today. Would there be less surface parking lots? More skyscrapers? Less crummy areas? Not sure what the answer is, but I get the feeling downtown would not be this dense and vibrant urban utopia some out there claim it would have been if not for that mall.

It's somewhat funny, because while the picture looks bleak, there was far more foot traffic and retail activity around that period. You look at ground level pictures back around then and the sidewalks had far more people. Downtown was the place to go.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

It was more than just WEM that killed downtown. The City Centre Airport crushed many plans to develop skyscrapers, resulting in short squat towers here while big shiny towers sprang up in Calgary. The underground LRT construction helped kill much of the street life. NEP recession and the ensuing Ralph Klein era didn't help matters. Need I go on?

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

It was more than just WEM that killed downtown. The City Centre Airport crushed many plans to develop skyscrapers, resulting in short squat towers here while big shiny towers sprang up in Calgary. The underground LRT construction helped kill much of the street life. NEP recession and the ensuing Ralph Klein era didn't help matters. Need I go on?

the biggest negative was - and remains - neil crawford centre (except for the new super lab and coroner’s office) and thousands of employees spending their work days in isolation.

[Kevin_foster]

What is the opinion of what WEM did for putting Edmonton on the map in the 80s? Was it a net benefit for us even if it took away from downtown? At least we are large enough now to have our cake and eat it too.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

What is the opinion of what WEM did for putting Edmonton on the map in the 80s? Was it a net benefit for us even if it took away from downtown? At least we are large enough now to have our cake and eat it too.

Now there's something I thought I'd never hear about WEM. The rest of the country laughs about it: a city defined by a big suburban mall.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

It was more than just WEM that killed downtown. The City Centre Airport crushed many plans to develop skyscrapers, resulting in short squat towers here while big shiny towers sprang up in Calgary. The underground LRT construction helped kill much of the street life. NEP recession and the ensuing Ralph Klein era didn't help matters. Need I go on?

Much of the initial anti-business push that drove oil companies to set up in Calgary can be traced back to when Edmonton gave the thumbs-down to the Husky Tower.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Originally Posted by s211

Much of the initial anti-business push that drove oil companies to set up in Calgary can be traced back to when Edmonton gave the thumbs-down to the Husky Tower.

Husky Tower was rejected by Edmonton because of the City Centre Airport.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by s211

Now there's something I thought I'd never hear about WEM. The rest of the country laughs about it: a city defined by a big suburban mall.

no more than the rest of its country laughs about anaheim for being defined by an amusement park...

edmonton wasn't laughed at because of its malls (and i use the (plural and not the singular because it included kingsway and londonderry and southgate and heritage and eaton centre etc., not just wem). it was envied for having the highest levels of disposable income in the country and for having the best shopping and the best fashion shopping in the country.

edmonton was the test-bed for new concepts and considered an entry point to canada for foreign retailers because of that disposable income and because of the shopping savy, the feeling being that if you could make it in edmonton, you could make it anywhere in the country.

it's also worth nothing that when wem opened, downtown still had an eatons and a woodwards and the original bay as well as scores of independents including a hardware store and a year round indoor farmers' market.

[TimB09]

Canuckyeg on c2e posted he/she has heard that Wexford has put out an RFP for their site they bought downtown. 35-40 stories.

[Abii]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

It was more than just WEM that killed downtown. The City Centre Airport crushed many plans to develop skyscrapers, resulting in short squat towers here while big shiny towers sprang up in Calgary. The underground LRT construction helped kill much of the street life. NEP recession and the ensuing Ralph Klein era didn't help matters. Need I go on?

I'm relatively new to Edmonton's public transport system and the other day, while walking through the tunnels, I was thinking about the same thing. I talked to a guy from Calgary and he said they don't have these tunnels over there. To me they seem like a massive waste of space and money.

What is the point of having 15 different entry and exit points for every station? The net result is money wasted on heating empty spaces, running escalators, maintenance etc... You're also taking foot traffic away from up top. The smarter thing to do is to build more lines with simple station designs and cheap maintenance bills. The stations in Vancouver (what I'm used to) are literally small glass boxes with a set of escalators on either side, THAT'S IT! Okay, Vancouver has a different climate, but it's miserable in the winter nonetheless. Is it that difficult to put a jacket on when you're leaving the station to walk to your office? haha. The argument for the tunnels make no sense to me.

I'm not even mad about the system being underground. The system should probably be underground (even Vancouver's Skytrain is underground in the core), but the problem are these damn tunnels (which are outdated as fuckkkkk on top btw).

Is the new line being built the same way? With underground cities and 500 different entry and exit points?

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

Husky Tower was rejected by Edmonton because of the City Centre Airport.

Was it tall???

[s211]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

Husky Tower was rejected by Edmonton because of the City Centre Airport.

And Husky took its ball to Calgary, and the rest is history. Talk about missed opportunity.

[s211]

Originally Posted by kcantor

it was envied for having the highest levels of disposable income in the country and for having the best shopping and the best fashion shopping in the country.

Good lord. No way in any way does Edmonton have the best fashion shopping in the country, nor did it ever. Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver and Calgary could eat Edmonton's fashion lunch all day long and never feel the least bit full.

Edmonton's fashion retail is also on a wicked downward spiral to boot. Just compare what Holt had to offer 20-25 years ago for men versus today. Just follow how Winnipeg's fashion retail has been gutted and you'll see the end game for Edmonton. And that makes me sad.

But I'm getting just a bit off topic now.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Abii

I'm relatively new to Edmonton's public transport system and the other day, while walking through the tunnels, I was thinking about the same thing. I talked to a guy from Calgary and he said they don't have these tunnels over there. To me they seem like a massive waste of space and money.

What is the point of having 15 different entry and exit points for every station? The net result is money wasted on heating empty spaces, running escalators, maintenance etc... You're also taking foot traffic away from up top. The smarter thing to do is to build more lines with simple station designs and cheap maintenance bills. The stations in Vancouver (what I'm used to) are literally small glass boxes with a set of escalators on either side, THAT'S IT! Okay, Vancouver has a different climate, but it's miserable in the winter nonetheless. Is it that difficult to put a jacket on when you're leaving the station to walk to your office? haha. The argument for the tunnels make no sense to me.

I'm not even mad about the system being underground. The system should probably be underground (even Vancouver's Skytrain is underground in the core), but the problem are these damn tunnels (which are outdated as fuckkkkk on top btw).

Is the new line being built the same way? With underground cities and 500 different entry and exit points?

The long and short of it would suggest that 1970s Edmonton was following the lead of Montreal and Toronto, i.e. an extensive underground pedestrian network connecting rapid transit with primary downtown complexes and towers.

Instead, Vancouver makes everyone slog through the rain. Ask me which design I'd prefer a whole heck of a lot.

[kcantor]

^^

i’m talking 40 years ago - not today - when independents like lipton’s were at heritage when it opened and penn & teller opened wem’s phase 2 with their white tigers...