DENVER | Main Development Thread #7 - Page 185

RyanD · #**3681** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 1:47 AM**

Upper Downtown is also going to get a good push of marketing to try to attract some development. Talk about an area that needs help.

BG918 · #**3682** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 3:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

Upper Downtown is also going to get a good push of marketing to try to attract some development. Talk about an area that needs help.

19th & Broadway area? I don’t see those parking lots going away anytime soon.

Another area in the “long play” game is Elitch Gardens.

TakeFive · #**3683** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 4:47 AM**

The No-Bull Review

From time to time it crosses my mind to post visual reminders on this site of finished projects that were originally posted about what seems like a coons age ago (but not to be confused with the fine Wrap-Ups on DenverInfill).

Here's to The Quincy Apartments
1776 Curtis Street

Notice the Q in the pool

Images courtesy of The Quincy Apartments/Shea Properties

• Video Link

bunt_q · #**3684** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 3:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryand

upper downtown is also going to get a good push of marketing to try to attract some development. Talk about an area that needs help.

updo!

wong21fr · #**3685** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 4:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918

19th & Broadway area? I don’t see those parking lots going away anytime soon.

Another area in the “long play” game is Elitch Gardens.

Isn't that the area where a Canadian developer just purchased a couple of parcels and is proposing 400 or so condos?

Fritzdude · #**3686** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

Upper Downtown is also going to get a good push of marketing to try to attract some development. Talk about an area that needs help.

What are the boundaries generally associated with Upper Downtown? Does the proposed developments along Sherman play into this?

Robert.hampton · #**3687** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 5:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Isn't that the area where a Canadian developer just purchased a couple of parcels and is proposing 400 or so condos?

Also the ongoing push to rezone Sherman from Colfax to 20th.

DenverInfill · #**3688** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 5:41 PM**

I think we'll see Upper Downtown become a new focus area and become a new hot spot.

DenvertoLA · #**3689** Posted **Sep 27, 2018, 11:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

I think we'll see Upper Downtown become a new focus area and become a new hot spot.

Is this because it's adjacent to the convention center expansion, or is there other public investment that's set to kick off there?

DenverInfill · #**3690** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 1:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

Is this because it's adjacent to the convention center expansion, or is there other public investment that's set to kick off there?

I think because there are some really good development sites in Upper Downtown and there's generally nothing really wrong with Upper Downtown, it's just not the new shiny hip place currently. Now that the competition from Union Station has largely abated, all Upper Downtown needs is some branding and promotion, a key placemaking investment or two, a little sprucing up, and maybe a strategic catalyst development project (like the two condo towers) to really get the ball rolling.

It's not like central/upper downtown hasn't seen any investment. There's SkyHouse, several hotels by the CCC, and Block 162, plus lots of investment in nearby districts like the Golden Triangle and Uptown.

SirLucasTheGreat · #**3691** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 2:07 AM**

I would also think that the light rail infrastructure would aid development. Those vacant lots off Broadway all are within a few blocks of a light rail station.

Denvergotback · #**3692** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 2:25 PM**

What do you guys think of the aerotropolis development? I hate to see them build that many offices and development way outside of central Denver and all that sprawl, but is it necessary for it to be located there to attract more international businesses?

wong21fr · #**3693** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 2:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denvergotback

What do you guys think of the aerotropolis development? I hate to see them build that many offices and development way outside of central Denver and all that sprawl, but is it necessary for it to be located there to attract more international businesses?

A developer can wish in one hand to build office parks larger than downtown and shit in the other- guess which one fills up quicker?

It's going to be a Highlands Ranch-esque development and you'll largely see the proposed sections for office slowly be brought online as single-family tract housing.

rds70 · #**3694** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 2:44 PM**

I wonder what this means for Two Tabor:

https://ivanhoecambridge.com/en/news-and-media/news/2018/09/callahan-capital-properties

Maybe a bigger company can actually get it built.

HighSt. · #**3695** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 2:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

I think because there are some really good development sites in Upper Downtown and there's generally nothing really wrong with Upper Downtown, it's just not the new shiny hip place currently.

Tell me if I'm off-base with this, but I feel like the other major reason Upper Downtown has been slower to see major moves is the sheer size and theoretically unlimited height build-able on some of those parcels. Instead of Sugar Square-size infill, developers are being tasked with finding the financing to do entire blocks. Landowners are always going to want big money for parcels someone could really put a 50+ story building on, and between the cost of the land and the buildings that would go on it, developers probably haven't been ready to take those risks.

The height limits in LoDo (theoretically) create a limiting pressure on how much landowners can ask. I'm imagining a theoretical crossover point where the escalating land costs in LoDo finally make a lot in Upper Downtown look attractive.

BG918 · #**3696** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 2:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighSt.

The height limits in LoDo (theoretically) create a limiting pressure on how much landowners can ask. I'm imagining a theoretical crossover point where the escalating land costs in LoDo finally make a lot in Upper Downtown look attractive.

And lack of available lots. You can almost count on your hands the number of surface lots without development proposals left in Lodo. It's getting close to being built-out which is amazing considering where it was 20 years ago.

I think you are correct why Upper Downtown is so difficult, and therefore why it's not a hotspot. Maybe the activation of the Welton corridor will spill over into the 19th & Broadway area, and continued infill in Arapahoe Square will make those lots more enticing for new developments. But the owners of those parking lots are notorious for sitting on their hands waiting for that one-off skyscraper proposal like we're in the days of the 1970's oil boom.

wong21fr · #**3697** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 3:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds70

I wonder what this means for Two Tabor:

https://ivanhoecambridge.com/en/news-and-media/news/2018/09/callahan-capital-properties

Maybe a bigger company can actually get it built.

Well they didn't kill the Two Tabor website when they closed the transaction and the company representative is the same- transitioned from CCP to Ivanhoe Cambridge.

Hopefully it does point towards T2 moving forward with some serious equity behind it.

TakeFive · #**3698** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 4:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Well they didn't kill the Two Tabor website when they closed the transaction and the company representative is the same- transitioned from CCP to Ivanhoe Cambridge.

Hopefully it does point towards T2 moving forward with some serious equity behind it.

Interestingly, Ivanhoé Cambridge is a real estate subsidiary of the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, one of Canada's biggest institutional fund managers.

It looks like they may be more inclined to partner on Two Tabor. They've partnered with Hines for example on Eighth Avenue Place in Calgary. Do You think maybe they could sneak some good Canadian steel across the border?

• Video Link

TakeFive · #**3699** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denvergotback

What do you guys think of the aerotropolis development? I hate to see them build that many offices and development way outside of central Denver and all that sprawl, but is it necessary for it to be located there to attract more international businesses?

Don't listen to wong; Joe at the bar told me the minimum height requirement would be 40 stories.

Sprawl is not by definition bad; that's a talking point. At this point it's clearly not a deterrent to urban growth. Context is always the key. I wouldn't look for the same kind of development that DFW has seen but surely there will be opportunities for the 5th busiest airport in the U.S. to benefit from nearby mixed-use development.

DenverInfill · #**3700** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 5:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighSt.

Tell me if I'm off-base with this, but I feel like the other major reason Upper Downtown has been slower to see major moves is the sheer size and theoretically unlimited height build-able on some of those parcels. Instead of Sugar Square-size infill, developers are being tasked with finding the financing to do entire blocks. Landowners are always going to want big money for parcels someone could really put a 50+ story building on, and between the cost of the land and the buildings that would go on it, developers probably haven't been ready to take those risks.

The height limits in LoDo (theoretically) create a limiting pressure on how much landowners can ask. I'm imagining a theoretical crossover point where the escalating land costs in LoDo finally make a lot in Upper Downtown look attractive.

Yes, I think that is an issue too.