Amazon HQ2 bid

[AlwaysMoving]

From the article:

Pending approval from the city, Related Midwest has said it plans about 13 million square feet of buildings on the site, including skyscrapers up to 950 feet tall. The 78 is likely to include a mix of office, residential, hotel, retail and entertainment space. The developer also is working on a plan to build the proposed Discovery Partners Institute, a University of Illinois-led innovation center, on the site.

Sounds like the gulch, but shovel ready.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by AlwaysMoving

From the article:


Sounds like the gulch, but shovel ready.

General FYI the 78 is a 62 acre proposal essentially looking to create a new neighborhood between south loop and Chinatown in Chicago and along the river. They’re proposing relocating commuter railroads and adding an additional CTA (similar to MARTA stop) to split up a 1 mile gap between existing stations.

[skyscraperpage17]

8

Originally Posted by AlwaysMoving

From the article:


Sounds like the gulch, but shovel ready.

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

General FYI the 78 is a 62 acre proposal essentially looking to create a new neighborhood between south loop and Chinatown in Chicago and along the river. They’re proposing relocating commuter railroads and adding an additional CTA (similar to MARTA stop) to split up a 1 mile gap between existing stations.

Like I said earlier, when it strictly comes to sites, Chicago easily has us beat. Granted, that doesn't mean they're an overall better candidate as a city on paper (IMO, they're not).

All of that said, it'll be interesting to see if more repors like this come out in other cities. This does suggest to me that they're still extremely interested in Chicago (not surprising, as I still have them as a top 4/5 choice) as they wittle down the candidates .

[Libertarian]

The streets in Atlanta are for the most part shit. That must factor in at some level.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

The streets in Atlanta are for the most part shit. That must factor in at some level.

Serious question: have you ever lived up north where freezing temperatures cause water to freeze, expand, and break apart roads on an annual basis?

I don’t think I can name a city in the US that has pristine roadways. Not sure I’d consider it a badge of honor either way. I give a damn about our constituents first and foremost, your drive in your single occupant vehicle down a road is low on the list.

[Mentallect]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

8



Like I said earlier, when it strictly comes to sites, Chicago easily has us beat. Granted, that doesn't mean they're an overall better candidate as a city on paper (IMO, they're not).

All of that said, it'll be interesting to see if more repors like this come out in other cities. This does suggest to me that they're still extremely interested in Chicago (not surprising, as I still have them as a top 4/5 choice) as they wittle down the candidates .

Chicago has Atlanta beat on almost all metrics. Atlanta has better weather, and cost of home prices are slightly better, a central time zone, world's busiest airport. Chicago has more talent, better university system, a vast metro system. the world's thirds busiest airport along with another large airport Midway. Atlanta is still considered a Tier 2 city. That is changing. If GA right wing politicians get out of the way, Atlanta will increasingly become a city of choice for tech companies. Educated tech liberals love Atlanta, but hate GA's bathroom bill legislature. I have lived in Chicago. Love it. I also been to Atlanta dozens of times, and it is amazing to visit. Atlanta is in prime position to be a cornerstone of US capitalism in years to come, but rural voters is the enemy of the state.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Serious question: have you ever lived up north where freezing temperatures cause water to freeze, expand, and break apart roads on an annual basis?

I don’t think I can name a city in the US that has pristine roadways. Not sure I’d consider it a badge of honor either way. I give a damn about our constituents first and foremost, your drive in your single occupant vehicle down a road is low on the list.

Agreed.

Georgia has the 2nd best infrastructure in the country according to the recent study I saw.

Compared to the roads in places like Chicago or Detroit, Atlanta's roads are state of the art.

[908kiddo]

Originally Posted by Mentallect

Chicago has Atlanta beat on almost all metrics. Atlanta has better weather, and cost of home prices are slightly better, a central time zone, world's busiest airport. Chicago has more talent, better university system, a vast metro system. the world's thirds busiest airport along with another large airport Midway.

And is still the #1 city in the entire country people are moving from. Do I even have to say what one of the #1 cities that people are moving to is ?

Atlanta is still considered a Tier 2 city. That is changing. If GA right wing politicians get out of the way, Atlanta will increasingly become a city of choice for tech companies.

Why do you keep choosing to disregard the tech-related statistics on Atlanta? Atlanta at this point can be considered a tech hub and if I'm not mistaken has the most big data sites/offices in the entire country or something along those lines, and I'm sure someone can clean up and vouch for that statement. Around 15+ tech companies moved here in the past few years alone. The city is even known as the Silicon Valley of the South. Tech Jobs in the city are up nearly 50% since 2010. I know you can't be oblivious to all of this.


Take a look at the only non-Western city to make the list: https://www.forbes.com/sites/falonfatemi...come-tomorrows-tech-meccas/#4186a8242132

[Libertarian]

The streets in Atlanta are not good. Whether one likes automobiles or not, we have to depend on good streets and signals to move people and get goods delivered. I know drivers who had damage from hitting holes and metal plates. Yes, I know other cities in the northeast and midwest have similar problems. Instead of spending taxpayer money on non-used streetcars to nowhere, we need to put our efforts on what will help the most.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by 908kiddo

And is still the #1 city in the entire country people are moving from. Do I even have to say what one of the #1 cities is ?



Why do you keep choosing to disregard the tech-related statistics on Atlanta? Atlanta at this point can be considered a tech hub and if I'm not mistaken has the most big data sites/offices in the entire country or something along those lines, and I'm sure someone can clean up and vouch for that statement. Around 15+ tech companies moved here in the past few years alone. The city is even known as the Silicon Valley of the South. I know you can't be oblivious to all of this.

Agreed on all points.

Chicago may have an overall larger talent pool, but per-capita, Atlanta definitely ranks above it as far as its tech ecosystem.

Plus, Chicago has its fiscal problem going against it, the fact the state of Illinois tends to be hostile to business in general, and also the its crime problems.

Not to mentiom, I tend to think Amazon would prefer an Eastern Time Zone HQ to compliment its Pacific Time Zone HQ.

[SIGSEGV]

Atlanta crime rate and Chicago crime rate are similar. Yes, people from the North retire to the south, and a lot of working class Chicagoans are leaving, but the number of high-earners is increasing in Chicago.

[908kiddo]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Atlanta crime rate and Chicago crime rate are similar. Yes, people from the North retire to the south, and a lot of working class Chicagoans are leaving, but the number of high-earners is increasing in Chicago.

I think the bigger picture here is that the people are moving regardless. People are chasing QOL.

And Atlanta's crime and Chicago's crime are apples and oranges because of the differences in density. People will turn down Chicago because of crime, but will tolerate it in Atlanta.

[908kiddo]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Agreed on all points.

Chicago may have an overall larger talent pool, but per-capita, Atlanta definitely ranks above it as far as its tech ecosystem.

Plus, Chicago has its fiscal problem going against it, the fact the state of Illinois tends to be hostile to business in general, and also the its crime problems.

Not to mentiom, I tend to think Amazon would prefer an Eastern Time Zone HQ to compliment its Pacific Time Zone HQ.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[atlwarrior]

Originally Posted by Mentallect

Chicago has Atlanta beat on almost all metrics. Atlanta has better weather, and cost of home prices are slightly better, a central time zone, world's busiest airport. Chicago has more talent, better university system, a vast metro system. the world's thirds busiest airport along with another large airport Midway. Atlanta is still considered a Tier 2 city. That is changing. If GA right wing politicians get out of the way, Atlanta will increasingly become a city of choice for tech companies. Educated tech liberals love Atlanta, but hate GA's bathroom bill legislature. I have lived in Chicago. Love it. I also been to Atlanta dozens of times, and it is amazing to visit. Atlanta is in prime position to be a cornerstone of US capitalism in years to come, but rural voters is the enemy of the state.

We are in the EST zone. Tier 2 and other ratings are useless.

[bnk]

There are certainly more than 7 in the list of 20 that won't cut it. It was always down to 3 or at most 4 cities that are real candidates if they followed their own site selection rules.


Sep 27, 2018, 12:57 pm EDT

https://investorplace.com/2018/09/7-cities-that-wont-win-the-second-amazon-headquarters/

7 Cities That Won’t Win the Second Amazon Headquarters

All seven are great places to live but it’s going to take more than scenery to lure Amazon to town

…

I see Amazon having an internal top five that includes three cities on the east coast — New York City (not Newark), Boston and the D.C. trio — as well as two from the interior in Atlanta and Chicago.

...

[Libertarian]

one more reason for Amazon to pick Georgia

[skyscraperpage17]

This is old news, but remember the story about Amazon hiring a team of lobbyists here in Georgia?

Apparently, in addition to that, the rumor is that several of the DC lobbyists they've hired are also Georgia attorneys.

Don't know how true it is or if it's even related to HQ2, but I thought I just mention this FWIW.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

This is old news, but remember the story about Amazon hiring a team of lobbyists here in Georgia?

Apparently, in addition to that, the rumor is that several of the DC lobbyists they've hired are also Georgia attorneys.

Don't know how true it is or if it's even related to HQ2, but I thought I just mention this FWIW.

Where did you read this - link please. Very interesting find S-17!

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Where did you read this - link please. Very interesting find S-17!

It was hearsay from a Reddit post, so like I said, take it FWIW...

https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/7p0pb7/forbes_hq2_either_pittsburgh_or_detroit/dsfhguu

[SAV]

https://afscatlanta.blogspot.com/2018/09/top-10-reasons-why-gulch-project-is.html?m=1

American Friends Service Committee/Atlanta
Atlanta Economic Justice Program

Sunday, September 30, 2018
TOP 10 REASONS WHY THE GULCH PROJECT IS A SHAM FOR ATLANTA
TOP 10 REASONS WHY ATLANTA'S GULCH DEAL IS BAD FOR THE CITY'S FUTURE



1. Public cost is at least 20 times the public benefit. Grossly disproportionate cost/benefit in CIM’s favor. Council did well to hold it - needs an independent, professional review of this deal.


2. Public cost is about $2.3Bn at 2018 prices , of which $2Bn is property tax and $0.3bn in sales tax. In return, public benefits are only worth, on generous interpretation, about $100mm.


3. When the public is putting in as much as 40% of the cost to develop a private, commercial project, the public should own 40% of it. Instead, we will own nothing. The only explanation for this grotesque imbalance of advantage is CIM’s Abject Greed.


4. The numbers. Property tax on a $5bn project when it’s complete - in 2032, per developer’s schedule - would be $90mm / yr. APS (the schools) would be losing out on $45mm / yr and the city and county $22.5mm / yr each.


5. Despite all the smoke from the project’s boosters, this lost property tax really IS a cost to the public. Because if offices, hotels etc. are NOT built in a tax-free Gulch, they will be built in taxable parts of town, such as Tech Square, Midtown, S Downtown, Atlantic Station, Buckhead and around the Beltline. If CIM does not get this deal, the demand for office, etc. will be met by developers in places where new construction pays taxes.


6. The same is true of the sales tax. This scheme would short the city and the state of some $300mm at 2018 prices thru 2048. Retail sales demand is not going to be created by putting stores in the Gulch. Those sales are going to happen somewhere in town, and the only question is whether they pay tax to the state and the general fund or not. So the total revenue loss IS $2.3 Billion. That is $5,000 per man, woman and child resident in the city. It is equivalent to a $20,000 donation from every family of four in Atlanta to the billionaire Ressler brothers.


7. The public benefits that have been dribbled out amount generously to around $100mm. The different cash funds are easy to add up: $42mm (though with no guarantee they’ll be spent to create real community benefit). The 200 housing units affordable at 80% AMI are worth $10mm, unless CIM guarantees 99 years with no further subsidy, which would make them worth $60mm. Total value from $52mm- $102mm.


8. The hard sell for this deal pretends that it brings 37,000 jobs to town. That is nonsense. Employers bring jobs to town – over 40,000 in the past 6 years – NCR, Worldpay, Honeywell, Anthem, Kaiser and so on – for our competitive talent, universities and airport. Office towers do not bring jobs here. (If they did, we’d have had no unemployment in the great recession, because we sure had masses of empty office towers.) So the scheme does not bring one single job here.


9. Similarly the sales pitch takes credit for 1800 construction jobs. But office towers are going to be built in the city to meet employer demand. So the same construction jobs will be here, whether those offices are built in the Gulch or in S Downtown and elsewhere. Handing over a $2bn subsidy will not result in more offices being built than are needed or more construction jobs.


10. The final arm-twist on Council has been a Norfolk Southern deal. N-S wants us to give this enormous subsidy to CIM so that NS can sell Gulch land to CIM at a big profit. There’s nothing in that for the public. But NS might move 1,000 HQ people here in a consolidation. To justify a $2bn subsidy, we’d need not 1,000 jobs but about 600,000 jobs! That’s more than twice the total number of jobs in the entire city (and 12 times the size of Amazon HQ2).

The Housing Justice League will be co-sponsoring a townhall for those that want to learn more or get involved this Thursday October 4th at 6:30pm, click here for to link to the facebook event.