Great Canadian Skyline Thread II - Page 446

isaidso · #**8901** Posted **Sep 22, 2018, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavlov

A lazy Google search returned these results:

Edmonton 2014 "downtown" population: 13,148.

Calgary 2016 "downtown" population: 18,114.

In both cases, I doubt that "downtown" correlates very closely with each city's actual urban neighborhoods (and of course we could endlessly debate which neighborhoods those are.) For example, the Calgary number doesn't include the beltline or mission or bridgeland.

Downtown Halifax compares favourably. Depending on what one counts, downtown Halifax had a population between 18,745 and 37,490 in 1951. That decreased to between 11,846 and 23,692 in 1991. It started rebounding and stood at between 14,530 and 29,060 in 2011. That increase has accelerated 2011 to present.

The expanded definition of downtown Halifax includes the following tracts: Downtown, Cogswell, Spring Garden, Commons, Inglis. Just the old downtown section is a very small area and these other 4 are very much part of downtown today. For those not familiar with Halifax Spring Garden is their main high street. These 5 together roughly correspond to the map below with minor variances. The boundary would be Cornwallis, Robie, and Inglis. It would not include the rail terminus or port.

Table on Page 19: http://theoryandpractice.planning.dal.ca.../mplan_projects/wgregory_thesis_2014.pdf

headhorse · #**8902** Posted **Sep 22, 2018, 11:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavlov

A lazy Google search returned these results:

Edmonton 2014 "downtown" population: 13,148.

Calgary 2016 "downtown" population: 18,114.

In both cases, I doubt that "downtown" correlates very closely with each city's actual urban neighborhoods (and of course we could endlessly debate which neighborhoods those are.) For example, the Calgary number doesn't include the beltline or mission or bridgeland.

just for comparison in the prairies, winnipeg's downtown population in 2016 was about 16,800 using winnipeg's downtown zoning bylaw boundaries or 17,826 using census canada and CMHC boundaries. however, one possible equivalent neighbourhood to beltline and oliver, broadway-assiniboine, is included in winnipeg's downtown population. some people might think osborne village is more comparable to those neighbourhoods, though.

Chadillaccc · #**8903** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 7:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Which city has more of an urban population? Edmonton appears to have a bit more residential then Calgary in most shots I've seen.

The Calgary urban area in 2016 had 1,238,000 while Edmonton had 1,063,000. But if you mean in the core areas, they are fairly similar, however Calgary has an incomparably higher level of ongoing residential construction throughout our inner city with about 5,000 units UC. Downtown Edmonton and Oliver together, at a combined area of 4 km2, are about 40,000, whereas Downtown Calgary and the Beltline, at a combined area of 4.1 km2, is about 44,000. Very similar currently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Downtown Halifax compares favourably.

It only compares favourably if we are talking about comparable geographic areas. The entire Halifax Peninsula, as mapped in your post, is not a considerably larger than both Downtown Calgary/Beltline and Downtown Edmonton/Oliver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Which city has more of an urban population? Edmonton appears to have a bit more residential then Calgary in most shots I've seen.

It only looks like that because downtown Calgary has over 100 towers more than downtown Edmonton, most of which are offices, diluting the appearance of our residential towers in the skyline.

Martin Mtl · #**8904** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 3:00 PM**

Credit photo: @jfsavaria on Instagram

Credit photo: @pixupmtl on Instagram

TorontoDrew · #**8905** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 3:10 PM**

This is a crazy shot. How far away?

by hullite1968, on Flickr

isaidso · #**8906** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 4:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

It only compares favourably if we are talking about comparable geographic areas. The entire Halifax Peninsula, as mapped in your post, is not a considerably larger than both Downtown Calgary/Beltline and Downtown Edmonton/Oliver.

As we're not talking about Peninsula Halifax just Downtown Halifax lets stick to that. I haven't been to Edmonton but have been to the other 2. Downtown Halifax feels as populated as Downtown Calgary/Beltline and the data suggests that's precisely the case. They're also comparable in area. In 2016 there were 14,858 people living in downtown Halifax (3.26 km2) which is slightly smaller than Downtown Calgary/Beltline (4.7 km2) in area.

To bring Downtown Halifax closer in land area one could easily add adjacent Census Tract 205.0010.00 to bump Downtown Halifax to 4.09 km2 and a population of 19,894. Doing it again by adding adjacent Census Tract 205.0005.00 would bump Downtown Halifax to 4.86 km2 and a population of 21,702.

Beltline: 2.9 km2
Downtown Calgary: 1.8 km2
TOTAL: 4.7 km2

Downtown Halifax: Census Tracts 205.0004.02, 205.0004.01, 205.0008.00, 205.0007.00, 205.0009.00
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recen...1&S=94&O=A&RPP=9999&CMA=205#2016S0503205
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recen.../ct/files-fichiers/2016-92146-205-01.pdf

Peninsula Halifax

And btw, Peninsula Halifax (7.5 km long by 3.3 km wide) dwarfs the land area of Downtown Calgary/Beltline. Calgary CMA may be 3 times the size of Halifax CMA but it's a mistake to assume everything is bigger or denser in Calgary.... because it isn't. Your assumption that Peninsula Halifax is smaller in land area is way off. A picture is worth a thousand words:

MonctonRad · #**8907** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 5:02 PM**

That's an old picture of peninsular Halifax (pre Juan) - there are still trees in Point Pleasant Park........

isaidso · #**8908** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 5:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

That's an old picture of peninsular Halifax (pre Juan) - there are still trees in Point Pleasant Park........

Good eye.

someone123 · #**8909** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

That's an old picture of peninsular Halifax (pre Juan) - there are still trees in Point Pleasant Park........

It is probably from 1980-1985 based on the buildings.

Halifax has a very different urban form from Calgary. In fact they are almost "opposites" in terms of when and how they developed. Halifax's inner city is mostly old neighbourhoods from 1750-1900, and Calgary barely existed during this period. Calgary and Halifax were about the same size in the 1950's and 60's, and most modern development has been suburban or commercial.

It reminds me a lot of the other thread where people were talking about European vs. North American cities. Calgary is about 98% on the North American end of that and Halifax is about 30% of the way to Europe.

Calgary is the larger and richer city now so it has things like higher end stores and more impressive office towers than Halifax, but Halifax is more pedestrian oriented and historic.

Halifax's prewar neighbourhoods cover more than the peninsula. Areas like Dartmouth, Fairview, Armdale, and the old town of Bedford were fairly developed by 1930. But these are mostly just detached early 20th century houses, not what I would consider urban neighbourhoods. The western half of the peninsula is mostly just neighbourhoods like this. I would not consider them "inner city". They are similar to inner city Western Canada neighbourhoods but because they're farther out and Halifax has grown relatively little, they haven't been redeveloped as intensively. Halifax has 100 year old areas that are just average leafy suburbs, while in Calgary or Vancouver most of those areas have been retrofitted to become higher end or more urban neighbourhoods because they are relatively scarce. Saint John is at the opposite extreme, with run down Victorian tenement style buildings that feel like they are at the edge of town.

Chadillaccc · #**8910** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 5:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

As we're not talking about Peninsula Halifax just Downtown Halifax lets stick to that. I haven't been to Edmonton but have been to the other 2. Downtown Halifax feels as populated as Downtown Calgary/Beltline and the data suggests that's precisely the case. They're also comparable in area. In 2016 there were 14,858 people living in downtown Halifax (3.26 km2) which is slightly smaller than Downtown Calgary/Beltline (4.7 km2) in area.

To bring Downtown Halifax closer in land area one could easily add adjacent Census Tract 205.0010.00 to bump Downtown Halifax to 4.09 km2 and a population of 19,894. Doing it again by adding adjacent Census Tract 205.0005.00 would bump Downtown Halifax to 4.86 km2 and a population of 21,702.

And btw, Peninsula Halifax (7.5 km long by 3.3 km wide) dwarfs the land area of Downtown Calgary/Beltline. Calgary CMA may be 3 times the size of Halifax CMA but it's a mistake to assume everything is bigger or denser in Calgary.... because it isn't. Your assumption that Peninsula Halifax is smaller in land area is way off. A picture is worth a thousand words:

Woah there. My post was in error. Meant to type that "The entire Halifax Peninsula, as mapped in your post, is considerably larger than both Downtown Calgary/Beltline and Downtown Edmonton/Oliver."

And on that note, I don't really compare apples and oranges.

isaidso · #**8911** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 6:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I don't really compare apples and oranges.

Me either, hence why Downtown Halifax and Downtown Calgary/Beltline is what I compared.

J.OT13 · #**8912** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 7:42 PM**

Ottawa June 2017 from Flickr.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nabobswims/35388216350

Pavlov · #**8913** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 9:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Me either, h Jimence why Downtown Halifax and Downtown Calgary/Beltline is what I compared.

The population of downtown Calgary/beltline is 40,000 residents though.

J.OT13 · #**8914** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 10:48 PM**

Equivalent in Ottawa would include, more or less, Downtown, Centretown and the Byward Market. Roughly 34,000 people on 4.5 square kilometers.

Chadillaccc · #**8915** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 10:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavlov

The population of downtown Calgary/beltline is 40,000 residents though.

Closer to 45 000 now actually. Anywho, it's getting a bit extraneous now, even for me.

So here's a pretty pic!

DSC_3336 by itspoots, on Flickr

J.OT13 · #**8916** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 11:07 PM**

Bow Valley College looks a lot like Ryerson's building at the Eaton Centre.

Chadillaccc · #**8917** Posted **Sep 23, 2018, 11:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Bow Valley College looks a lot like Ryerson's building at the Eaton Centre.

Yeah, they've done a really good job on their campus in my opinion, and with the New Central Library opening soon, the old central library (directly behind BVC in this photo) lands are opening up for further expansion of BVC. Hoping to hear some plans soon, but I have heard rumours that they are planning their first student residences in that space.

O-tacular · #**8918** Posted **Sep 24, 2018, 1:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

That's an old picture of peninsular Halifax (pre Juan) - there are still trees in Point Pleasant Park........

Were they cut down?

MonctonRad · #**8919** Posted **Sep 24, 2018, 1:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Were they cut down?

Hurricane Juan blew virtually all the trees in Point Pleasant Park down. It was either an associated tornado or (more likely) an intense downburst. Quite devastating really. The park used to have a remarkable stand of mature pine trees, but the soil was thin and the root structure not deep. This predisposed to the blowdown.

O-tacular · #**8920** Posted **Sep 24, 2018, 1:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Hurricane Juan blew virtually all the trees in Point Pleasant Park down. It was either an associated tornado or (more likely) an intense downburst. Quite devastating really. The park used to have a remarkable stand of mature pine trees, but the soil was thin and the root structure not deep. This predisposed to the blowdown.

Too bad. Any current pics?