DENVER | Transportation Thread

[TakeFive]

People are commuting alone in cars less, but Denver’s a long way from its goals
Sep 17 2018 By Dave Burdick/Denverite

A bit of an interesting piece. Interesting partly because the improvement comes from people working at home apparently.


Courtesy American Community Survey via Denverite

Austin presents an interesting case; It's a city that's waay behind the 8-ball with respect to transit implementation. With respect to their planning there's an emphasis on using dedicated lanes.

If I can find the time to talk about that...

[TakeFive]

Done Deal

RTD approves major rate hikes for most rail, bus lines
SEPTEMBER 18, 2018, BY JIM HOOLEY/KDVR

DENVER — The Regional Transportation District Board of Directors approved a major rate hike for most of its train and bus lines on Tuesday night. It also approved a new discount plan to help low-income riders.

Riders on the A Line between Union Station and Denver International Airport will feel the new rate hike the most. The ride is set to jump to $10.50, up from the current $9. Local one-way fares will increase to $3. Regional fares will jump to $5.25.

The changes will take effect in early 2019.

Uber and Lyft drivers were seen giving each other high-fives and fist bumps.

[mishko27]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Done Deal

RTD approves major rate hikes for most rail, bus lines
SEPTEMBER 18, 2018, BY JIM HOOLEY/KDVR

Uber and Lyft drivers were seen giving each other high-fives and fist bumps.

Local day pass will thus be almost $7, that gets me from Peoria to downtown, which is still much better than $30 that Uber charges for the same ride ONE way.

[Denveropolis]

Originally Posted by mishko27

Local day pass will thus be almost $7, that gets me from Peoria to downtown, which is still much better than $30 that Uber charges for the same ride ONE way.

This adds another $30 a month to my light rail commute to work. I might be parking downtown instead.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Denveropolis

This adds another $30 a month to my light rail commute to work. I might be parking downtown instead.

Hey, but some poor people will now be able to eat and take the bus!

This move by RTD to appease their beholden special interest groups was some serious B/S and will have a negative impact on ridership IMO. Time will tell.

Denver needs to start their own transit agency asap as the city seems to be far more capable of keeping these interest groups inline versus the outright capitulation that RTD instinctively employs.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Hey, but some poor people will now be able to eat and take the bus!

This move by RTD to appease their beholden special interest groups was some serious B/S and will have a negative impact on ridership IMO. Time will tell.

Denver needs to start their own transit agency asap as the city seems to be far more capable of keeping these interest groups inline versus the outright capitulation that RTD instinctively employs.

I would like to see Denver institute as part of a transit tax a portion for fare subsidies that would allow any Denver citizen to ride any public transit for free at any time.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

I would like to see Denver institute as part of a transit tax a portion for fare subsidies that would allow any Denver citizen to ride any public transit for free at any time.

Heck, if that's included I'd take it- dependent on cost of course. But, I'd rather see a reduced fare across the board (back to the $2 level) for Denver residents coupled with increased frequency on selct routes through the City of Denver.

Ultimately, I believe that RTD needs to have a serious discussion about re-configuring it's bus route to emphasize high-frequency corridors and eliminate low-performing routes (inter-city and suburb). The agency needs to be about transit efficiency, and corresponding ridership, versus transit equality. If a half dozen routes in Highland Ranch need to be eliminated- so be it. If the only route through Globeville needs to be eliminated than it should be done.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Heck, if that's included I'd take it- dependent on cost of course. But, I'd rather see a reduced fare across the board (back to the $2 level) for Denver residents coupled with increased frequency on selct routes through the City of Denver.

Ultimately, I believe that RTD needs to have a serious discussion about re-configuring it's bus route to emphasize high-frequency corridors and eliminate low-performing routes (inter-city and suburb). The agency needs to be about transit efficiency, and corresponding ridership, versus transit equality. If a half dozen routes in Highland Ranch need to be eliminated- so be it. If the only route through Globeville needs to be eliminated than it should be done.

Yeah, I'm assuming that DenverMoves: Transit is implemented over the next 20 years through a combination of tax increases and other revenue sources, the city creating its own transit agency, and whatnot. Somewhere in there, we should be able to find a way to reduce or eliminate the transit fare for Denver citizens. After all, we don't charge Denver citizens to drive on the streets. If the city is serious about providing multimodal transportation to its citizens, it should either charge for all or make all free. But to require a fare for transit but to allow everyone to operate their private vehicle on public land for free is hypocritical and counterproductive to our stated goals of reducing automobile dependency and encouraging other means of transport.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Denveropolis

This adds another $30 a month to my light rail commute to work. I might be parking downtown instead.

The cheapest parking in the CBD (the $10 early bird) is still over $200 a month if you have to commute five days a week. If you walk in from Arapahoe Square you can find parking at ($120 a month (the $6/day lots by the homeless shelters), but that's disappearing fast.

Where this really sucks is that it's coupled with transit cuts and that's a tough pill to swallow.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mishko27

Local day pass will thus be almost $7, that gets me from Peoria to downtown, which is still much better than $30 that Uber charges for the same ride ONE way.

That must be 'surge' pricing or peak period costs... too much for everyday commuting.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Heck, if that's included I'd take it- dependent on cost of course.

If you're asking me for advice, I'd suggest calling Schwab.

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

After all, we don't charge Denver citizens to drive on the streets.

That's funky 'talking points' logic.

Citizens, legal, illegal or whatever pay a lot to drive on streets. It's called gas, insurance, maintenance, repairs and depreciation and according to the IRS it's 54.5 cents a mile. Then add in property taxes (paid thru rent if you're a tenant) etc. People who drive also pay for those who don't in that their taxes pay for RTD's capital and operating costs minus the modest amount of farebox recapture rates; in addition their taxes pay for roads, their maintenance and repairs that buses use and allow for bike lanes as well.

[TakeFive]

Ouch


Credit: CBS4 Denver

D, F and H Lines were rerouted to DUS.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Citizens, legal, illegal or whatever pay a lot to drive on streets. It's called gas, insurance, maintenance, repairs and depreciation and according to the IRS it's 54.5 cents a mile. Then add in property taxes (paid thru rent if you're a tenant) etc. People who drive also pay for those who don't in that their taxes pay for RTD's capital and operating costs minus the modest amount of farebox recapture rates; in addition their taxes pay for roads, their maintenance and repairs that buses use and allow for bike lanes as well.

I realize motorists pay taxes and other costs to drive a car. My point was that currently the city allows the public to operate private motor vehicles, bicycles, and other transport devices on public rights-of-way without charging a fare. Some road do have a fare (toll) but currently the city of Denver doesn't operate any tolled roads. So why should the city, if they choose to get into the transit business, charge a fare?

Or another way of looking at it is this: the city currently offers "free" garbage collection to single-family detached homeowners. Yes, it's technically not "free" because homeowners pay taxes, but it is a service that is provided at no additional cost within the bundle of services one receives for paying taxes. Likewise, why couldn't a ride on a bus or train be a service offered at no additional cost to Denver taxpayers that is included in the bundle of services we receive for paying taxes, just like how we get to drive our cars on public streets without paying a toll?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Yeah, I'm assuming that DenverMoves: Transit is implemented over the next 20 years through a combination of tax increases and other revenue sources, the city creating its own transit agency, and whatnot.

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Or another way of looking at it is this:

Your 2nd comment sounds reasonable and rational enough; but that 1st comment...

Sounds like you wish for Denver to be the 1st walled off and gated city that will charge non-residents privilege tolls for entering the Kingdom of Denver. That's a bit freaky and radical.

It shouldn't be a problem for "other transport devices" as logistics companies or commercial delivery suppliers either have or could easily create the software to charge their own 'privilege' fees to residents or companies within Denver to compensate for any city tolls.

Let's Make a Deal
Putting on my RTD cap... you can now call me Mr RTD.

Here's my offer: We'll agree that Denver need only pay RTD 5.5 tenths percent instead of the 1 percent sales tax currently being paid. That will cover the 4 tenths FasTracks costs plus reasonable revenue (to us) for operating and maintaining light and commuter rail.

Option A
We will operate buses primarily along arterial routes at a frequency that makes the most sense based on economic efficiency. We can then drop passengers at Denver's gates and Denver can provide service from there and charge whatever they wish to residents or non-residents.

Option B
Denver can opt to buyin to our bus service along arterial routes to an agreed upon destination and we'll charge Denver a full farebox recapture rate for Denver residents as well as an amount that covers our depreciation costs. If Denver wants higher frequency then they can provide that with their own branded buses. This would allow your happy residents to ride for free.

One more option
I just happen to have looked this up prior to seeing your comment. If you wish to make the argument that revenue from Denver's OPT which was $51 million in 2017 should be designated for supporting transit services within Denver then I'd be with you totally.

I think one thing you're missing is that people pay a boatload of taxes for roads etc which is no more than a 'use tax.' Whether it's called that or not is immaterial.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Your 2nd comment sounds reasonable and rational enough; but that 1st comment...

Sounds like you wish for Denver to be the 1st walled off and gated city that will charge non-residents privilege tolls for entering the Kingdom of Denver. That's a bit freaky and radical.

That's not at all what I wish for and I don't see how you took my comment that way.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

That's not at all what I wish for and I don't see how you took my comment that way.

Dang, your reply came before I finished with my edits, lol. Then I had to go on my post-Rockies-game walk.

Yes, I painted a bit of a visual extreme but you kept referring to Denver 'citizens' (as opposed to what?) If you're going to have a regional system that invites people from outside the city to use transit to come into the city then I have to believe the 'rules' have to treat all equally. I guess Denver could send its 'citizens' rebates or maybe vouchers to free meals at Sam's No. 3; I dunno.

The problems though aren't with fares. Have you ever considered how many 'poor' people have smart phones and HD tee vee? Denver still needs better bones. Years of declining bus ridership speak volumes. Add 15 miles of URBAN light rail and it would make a yuge difference.

Unfortunately neither Denver nor RTD nor the two combined have the needed funding at this point.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Dang, your reply came before I finished with my edits, lol. Then I had to go on my post-Rockies-game walk.

Yes, I painted a bit of a visual extreme but you kept referring to Denver 'citizens' (as opposed to what?) If you're going to have a regional system that invites people from outside the city to use transit to come into the city then I have to believe the 'rules' have to treat all equally. I guess Denver could send its 'citizens' rebates or maybe vouchers to free meals at Sam's No. 3; I dunno.

No you don't. You can have a regional system but if one of the participants decides that it wants to enhance the service provided, and is willing to pay for it, it can do so. That can come in the form of a city-issued Ecopass, high-frequency service, dedicated transit lanes, etc. There's nothing wrong with Denver wanting to provide a little more juice for the transit component of it's transportation mix. It actually makes sense for Denver to do so as it has a good number of neighborhoods that are well-suited for transit.

The problems though aren't with fares. Have you ever considered how many 'poor' people have smart phones and HD tee vee? Denver still needs better bones. Years of declining bus ridership speak volumes. Add 15 miles of URBAN light rail and it would make a yuge difference.

Unfortunately neither Denver nor RTD nor the two combined have the needed funding at this point.

It speaks volumes that RTD is a regional system with a focus on the commuter coming in from the burbs and that's where the focus has been. That the bus system has suffered, and really needs a major overhaul in how it is structured, is indicative on where the focus has been in building a regional commuter transit system. The bus isn't what people prefer to take, it what they are forced to take- hence the declining ridership. Contrast this with systems such as Seattle's, and even Houston's, where there has been a focus on making routes more frequent and efficient and you've seen a corresponding bump, or continuous increase, in ridership.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

No you don't. You can have a regional system but if one of the participants decides that it wants to enhance the service provided, and is willing to pay for it, it can do so.

Yes of course; I didn't intend to mean that wasn't an option. Obviously, Boulder has done additional buyup of service for many years. If a city wants to subsidize it's own people by buying ecopasses etc ofc it can do that.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

It speaks volumes that RTD is a regional system with a focus on the commuter coming in from the burbs and that's where the focus has been.

There are good reasons for that.

Ken certainly knows the history of Denver better than I but let's just say Denver/downtown has had it ups and downs. Other than for the splurge of high rises in the 1st half of the 1980's, the thing that kept downtown from becoming a tumbleweed was twofold.

All those government jobs especially lots of federal and state jobs. Add in the efforts of the suburbs in supporting the capitol city. Obviously as the capitol city there's a given amount of key banking and accounting etc business.

RTD started in 1969 but took a few years to get rolling. Especially once 'white fight' took flight it was the support from the suburbs and those government jobs that kept Denver going.

From a regional perspective, over several decades, few people gave two sheets about downtown... except for all those government workers and all the construction workers and oil & gas guys in the early 1980's when the after-hour bars were actually hopping.

The focus and biggest benefactor of RTD has always been downtown - all those lower wage government workers that needed a way to get there.

Obviously, a lot has changed since Coors Field opened 1995.

[Zmapper]

Loveland is changing their bus routes from very loopy to slightly less loopy: http://www.cityofloveland.org/departments/public-works/transit-colt

[TakeFive]

There's an old sports analogy that "if we don't pull together we'll end up tearing the team apart" - or something like that.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

This move by RTD to appease their beholden special interest groups was some serious B/S and will have a negative impact on ridership IMO. Time will tell.

I think your instincts are incorrect here. IMO the preponderance of 'special interest' groups come from within Denver. RTD was merely trying to work with their primary transit benefactor - Denver.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

If a half dozen routes in Highlands Ranch need to be eliminated- so be it.

See if you can catch this curveball?

Putting on my Highlands Ranch hat; you can now call me Mr Highlands Ranch.

"While we have limited access to light rail we do enjoy and appreciate this. Here is what we want/intend to do."

We'll offer to pay RTD 5.5 tenths sales tax in support of FasTracks and it's operation. Otherwise you can keep your clunky bus out of Highlands Ranch. With our savings of 4.5 tenths percent sales tax we'll partner with a micro-transit company to provide app-based service to our our residents for the purpose of better first & last mile access to light rail and to many retail centers. Bye bye RTD buses.

I wouldn't have the numbers but RTD would have them. My strong bet is that's a winner for Highlands Ranch and a loser for RTD meaning the RTD's revenue from Highlands Ranch easily exceeds the cost of providing a few bus routes.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

United's president said at a conference this week that the airline hopes to add another European destination from DEN soon. Most guesses are a second flight to FRA to complement the Lufthansa flight.

International fliers are becoming bees to Denver's honey.

Hundreds of thousands of international travelers passed through DIA this summer, setting a new record high
Sep 12 2018 By Allan Tellis/Denverite

DIA is seeing record numbers of travelers come through their hallways, standing and walking along its moving walkways, and this summer has seen some particularly big increases in international travelers.

This July brought 284,312 international passengers to the airport, making it the second busiest month for international travel in the airport’s history. It’s right behind this June, which saw 291,383 international travelers at the airport.

“We are very happy to see sustained growth in passenger traffic, which includes a 21 percent increase in international travelers compared to July 2017,” CEO Kim Day said in a press release.

Back to bus transit...

Originally Posted by Zmapper

Loveland is changing their bus routes from very loopy to slightly less loopy: http://www.cityofloveland.org/departments/public-works/transit-colt

Some of these smaller communities are nicely upping their transit game.