Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[bardak]

“If this project were stopped, it would be years before Surrey would have a rail project.”

Very particular choice of words. Chances are that there would still be a bus based rapid transit constructed with minimal delay but of course that is not important since it is not rail.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It depends on how badly you need the thing being offered to you. If instead of a candy bar it was a glass of water and you were dying of thirst, you might not want to wait until tomorrow for a pitcher of water.

Sure, but to run with the metaphor, Surrey's more severely dehydrated than dying. A wait won't kill them at this point.

Originally Posted by bardak

Very particular choice of words. Chances are that there would still be a bus based rapid transit constructed with minimal delay but of course that is not important since it is not rail.

B-Lines and BRT aren't developer-grabbing permanent enough, remember? Only an idiot would envision transportation as a way to transport people.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sure, but to run with the metaphor, Surrey's more severely dehydrated than dying. A wait won't kill them at this point.

That's fair. My point was that the degree of need can vary from an unnecessary luxury item to a requirement for survival and everything in-between.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That's fair. My point was that the degree of need can vary from an unnecessary luxury item to a requirement for survival and everything in-between.

Most definitely, but growth along main corridors (at least in this metro) tends to follow a bell curve, with KGB/104th and Fraser currently being on the bottom. The LRT as planned would be an unnecessary luxury right now and horrendously insufficient in the future, whereas a true rapid bus upgradeable to SkyTrain would scale much better.

[flipper316]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4441685/pedes...le&utm_medium=Outbrain&utm_campaign=2015

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://globalnews.ca/news/4441685/pedes...le&utm_medium=Outbrain&utm_campaign=2015

That's happened with the Skytrain too...

[red-paladin]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4445303/surre...ytrain-extension-to-white-rock-over-lrt/

He’s running for mayor in Surrey, and promising to scrap Light Rail Transit (LRT) to build a SkyTrain out to Langley along the Fraser Highway instead.

Now, Doug McCallum is proposing that the SkyTrain should also extend to South Surrey.

“To sort of complete the rapid transit part of our city, the first phase would be from our city centre out Fraser Highway to Langley,” he said.

“And the second phase that we’re proposing is to go from our city centre down King George to Newton, and then out to South Surrey.”

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

https://globalnews.ca/news/4445303/surre...ytrain-extension-to-white-rock-over-lrt/

I hope this guy wins bigtime. 104th ave is a stupid project the way it is designed. It is a major corridor for a reason and removing one lane each way is ass-backwards to say the least. It will cause nothing but gridlock in Surrey.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

https://globalnews.ca/news/4445303/surre...ytrain-extension-to-white-rock-over-lrt/

Well he just got my vote. I'm glad that this discussion is taking a stronger precedence in the media and in the public eye. But there is always one thing that people tend to conveniently omit, and I hate to keep reminding everyone here, but there was a study a few years ago that showed statistically that people who were commuting starting from Surrey and Langley were actually travelling within Surrey.

The Skytrain extension wouldn't just be there to send people to downtown Vancouver but phase 1 would extend the spine of rapid transit to connect people SoF to Surrey. Surrey Central will need a hell of a face-lift to accommodate its new commuters but it's already taking the right steps with its station upgrades (more will be necessary).

I wonder if extending the Skytrain to South Surrey would be a separate line? Phase 2 seems unlikely to happen for me but I am happy to be wrong. Perhaps I should save this for the fantasy thread....

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by scryer

I wonder if extending the Skytrain to South Surrey would be a separate line? Phase 2 seems unlikely to happen for me but I am happy to be wrong. Perhaps I should save this for the fantasy thread....

Most likely. A four-branch Expo Line (Production Way, Langley, Guildford AND South Surrey) would be incredibly dumb.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Most likely. A four-branch Expo Line (Production Way, Langley, Guildford AND South Surrey) would be incredibly dumb.

Off-topic: I'm secretly (and probably unrealistically) hoping that the Millennium and Expo line will be interlined like it once was, when the Millennium line extends to Arbutus/UBC. But yeah, a four/three-branch Expo Line is a little ridiculous.

[officedweller]

They need to build a 3rd platform at Columbia, then:
- the Millennium Line can branch to Columbia or to Lafarge Lake-Douglas (and eventually again to Port Coquitlam); and
- Expo Line can branch to Langley or to Newton/South Surrey

In a Surrey SkyTrain scenario, I think Guildford would be left out unless the Langley line detours.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

I hope this guy wins bigtime. 104th ave is a stupid project the way it is designed. It is a major corridor for a reason and removing one lane each way is ass-backwards to say the least. It will cause nothing but gridlock in Surrey.

Originally Posted by scryer

Well he just got my vote. I'm glad that this discussion is taking a stronger precedence in the media and in the public eye. But there is always one thing that people tend to conveniently omit, and I hate to keep reminding everyone here, but there was a study a few years ago that showed statistically that people who were commuting starting from Surrey and Langley were actually travelling within Surrey.

The Skytrain extension wouldn't just be there to send people to downtown Vancouver but phase 1 would extend the spine of rapid transit to connect people SoF to Surrey. Surrey Central will need a hell of a face-lift to accommodate its new commuters but it's already taking the right steps with its station upgrades (more will be necessary).

I wonder if extending the Skytrain to South Surrey would be a separate line? Phase 2 seems unlikely to happen for me but I am happy to be wrong. Perhaps I should save this for the fantasy thread....

One of the problems now is that anyone around Guildford who wants to transfer to either the Sktrain or a bus has to take the bus along 104th to Surrey Central. But extend the Skytrain down Fraser Hwy and put a stop around 152nd and you have a (slightly) shorter trip from Guildford to the Skytrain.

Something I think the outer suburbs really needs are B-Line style limited stop routes along with their local routes. They don't need to be the frequency of the 99, just local and express routes.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Sheba

One of the problems now is that anyone around Guildford who wants to transfer to either the Sktrain or a bus has to take the bus along 104th to Surrey Central. But extend the Skytrain down Fraser Hwy and put a stop around 152nd and you have a (slightly) shorter trip from Guildford to the Skytrain.

Something I think the outer suburbs really needs are B-Line style limited stop routes along with their local routes. They don't need to be the frequency of the 99, just local and express routes.

Ding Ding Ding. This is exactly what they need. To me a perfect system would be three B-line routes one down Fraser highway to Langely, one down King George to South Surrey, and one down 104th to at least Guildford but even better down 104th to Port Kells.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Ding Ding Ding. This is exactly what they need. To me a perfect system would be three B-line routes one down Fraser highway to Langely, one down King George to South Surrey, and one down 104th to at least Guildford but even better down 104th to Port Kells.

Same as the current plan, just with buses instead. Then once those overflow and end up being SkyTrain lines, TransLink can plan express buses for 64th/72nd, 120th 176th and 200th; those can be LRT.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Same as the current plan, just with buses instead. Then once those overflow and end up being SkyTrain lines, TransLink can plan express buses for 64th/72nd, 120th 176th and 200th; those can be LRT.

I sent back that map they did and changed almost all of the future LRT routes to B-Lines (I had different plans for Fraser Hwy and the L Line). If Surrey does have an anti-LRT crowd voted in, they already have my vision to fall back on (yay me)

[SunCoaster]

SkyTrain all the way ! Surface LRT along King George and 104 Avenue will be a nightmare. Build a duplicate of the Millennium Line! Lougheed traffic can be a nightmare as it is … can you imagine if the Millennium Line was surface vs elevated? Similarly King George and 104 Avenue already have horrendous traffic volume
at various times and losing 2 lanes to the LRT solves the traffic problem how? That said, yes the LRT is much cheaper and yes the LRT will make for a quicker commute for those who use it but if you're in a car you'll end up loathing the LRT as it will always have the right of way versus those people stuck @ intersections trying to cross King George or 104th. Quieter streets go ahead with the LRT but for busier streets spend the extra money and go with the SkyTrain.

[tybuilding]

My two cents:

I personally think skytrain to South Surrey is a bit of a pipe dream. I say build the LRT on the SNG and then look at extending the Skytrain to Langley.

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-lrt-stephan-mehr-translink

Business Case for LRT:

https://sfb.nathanpachal.com/2018/09/surrey-newton-guildford-light-rail.html

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

My two cents:

I personally think skytrain to South Surrey is a bit of a pipe dream. I say build the LRT on the SNG and then look at extending the Skytrain to Langley.

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-lrt-stephan-mehr-translink

Business Case for LRT:

https://sfb.nathanpachal.com/2018/09/surrey-newton-guildford-light-rail.html

Multiple problems with Pachal and Mehr's arguments.

- LRT has a benefit/cost ratio of 0.7, but BRT and RRT are at 1.6 and 1.2 respectively.
- Anything LRT can do, BRT can do; same frequency, same speed. LRT's just slightly bigger and prettier.
- The BRT isn't meant to be permanent; it may very well reach capacity in ten years, but by then we'll have the resources and ridership needed to remove it and build an RRT. The LRT is meant to be permanent, and so when it reaches capacity, Surrey's screwed.

[scryer]

Here we go again!