Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

First new Skytrain cars on the way. Can't see a difference from the last batch from this video.

https://t.co/9jwwNml3kn

They left Kingston on the 7th.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Neither TransLink nor BCRTC have said specifically which Mark I cars they intend to retire first. It's speculation on our part that they'll retire the newer-but-not-refurbished ones first to avoid needing to spend any money on refurbishing them. The timeline is such that it's about when those trains would be due for refurbishment anyways.

Sure, but that just begs the question: why would they refurbish all of the oldest Mark-I cars if they knew they were about to replace a bunch of them. The only reason I can figure is that the fact that they're all of the same series has some value.

And if they do replace some of the original refurbished cars, then the question becomes: why refurbish them if they knew they were going to replace them so quickly?

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

why refurbish them if they knew they were going to replace them so quickly?

They didn't know. There was no funding plan in place at the time of the refurbishment project.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Sure, but that just begs the question: why would they refurbish all of the oldest Mark-I cars if they knew they were about to replace a bunch of them. The only reason I can figure is that the fact that they're all of the same series has some value.

And if they do replace some of the original refurbished cars, then the question becomes: why refurbish them if they knew they were going to replace them so quickly?

As the news article said, the Mark I car has a lifespan of 25 years, and the refurbishment is designed to extend the useful life of these vehicles by about 15 years.
Since the oldest car is from 1984, end of life is 1984+25+15 = 2024. So I think the replacement timeline matches the planning.

[Mac Write]

Except the refurb didn't happen in 2009 but 2014-2017 apron.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Except the refurb didn't happen in 2009 but 2014-2017 apron.

I was thinking the same thing, but I think TransLink is playing a bit of a shell game here. The cars were rated for 25 years but they pushed it to 30+ years. They then refurbished them under the promise that they would extend the life by 15 years, but didn't say that it was from the 25 year mark and thus were only buying an additional 10 years.

[Mac Write]

Translink did say they were extending them by 10 years to last through 2026.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by dpogue

They didn't know. There was no funding plan in place at the time of the refurbishment project.

Not having funding in place doesn't mean they didn't have a strategy.

[SpongeG]

this is the intersection lighting

2018-09-12_08-19-48 by snub_you, on Flickr

[Firebrand]

Someone on the CPTDB said that the trolleys will be gone completely and will (probably) be replaced by battery-electric buses in 2024. But he doesn’t have the source from where he got it from.

[officedweller]

I would think that trolleys are more enviro-friendly than battery powered buses.

WRT MKIs and refurbishment - maybe they'll be kept on for their extended life even if additional MKIIIs are purchased.

[Mac Write]

What is the headway at present? 108s? Are they going to goto 80s headway?

We also need more trains outside of rush hour. at least 130s headway.

[WarrenC12]

Have Translink confirmed they aren't buying more trolley buses? I would hope battery buses replace the dirtiest, inefficient, old diesels first.

I would think battery buses are more expensive over their lifetime (compared to trolley), but who knows.

[cganuelas1995]

I'd think that they could probably do a battery-trolley hybrid, or maybe have overhead wires at bus loops so battery buses can do a quick-charge during their layover.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

What is the headway at present? 108s? Are they going to goto 80s headway?

We also need more trains outside of rush hour. at least 130s headway.

Peak:
Combined Expo section is every 2.22min
-- every third train going to Production, every 6.67min
-- two of three trains going to Surrey, every 3.33min (average)
Millennium every 3.33min

Mid-day and early evening:
Combined Expo section is every 3min
-- every second train going to Production, every 6min
-- every second train going to Surrey, every 6min
Millennium every 6min

Late evening:
Combined Expo section is every 4min
-- every second train going to Production, every 8min
-- every second train going to Surrey, every 8min
Millennium every 8min

Late night:
Combined Expo section is every 5min
-- every second train going to Production, every 10min
-- every second train going to Surrey, every 10min
Millennium every 10min

With the new order, it should be possible to cut the headway to 2/6/3/3

[Mac Write]

Those headways seem a lot longer then just 2-3 years ago when the system couldn't handle the rush hour frequences of trains.

[logicbomb]

Lots of chatter on CPTDB, there are rumors going around that Translink will seek to decommission to the trolleybus network in Metro Vancouver by 2024/25.

Interesting discussions have been going on behind the scenes over the past year. The trolley wires are actually wreaking havoc on the roads. One claims examiner in Translink has noted that any damage the buses trolley poles or wires cause to other vehicle is ALWAYS ruled to be their responsibility. That means that a large box or semi truck that hits the poles and wires off the bus is not at-fault and they can actually seek compensation against Translink (via ICBC). This is becoming an increasing headache and adding an extra cost.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Interesting discussions have been going on behind the scenes over the past year. The trolley wires are actually wreaking havoc on the roads. One claims examiner in Translink has noted that any damage the buses trolley poles or wires cause to other vehicle is ALWAYS ruled to be their responsibility. That means that a large box or semi truck that hits the poles and wires off the bus is not at-fault and they can actually seek compensation against Translink (via ICBC). This is becoming an increasing headache and adding an extra cost.

This must be a legal issue between TransLink and ICBC with this.

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Lots of chatter on CPTDB, there are rumors going around that Translink will seek to decommission to the trolleybus network in Metro Vancouver by 2024/25.

Followup quote from CPTDB:

I hate to say it, but the current trolleys may be the last trolleys Vancouver has. I come to this thought based on cost of the infrastructure and the obvious possibility that New Flyer may no longer offer them as an option. Translink seems to want greener equipment and overall operations and while trolleys are great for that, "free roaming" electric buses are the better and possibly cheaper option. For example, on days where trolley routes are required to reroute off the wires, diesel buses are used which increases pollution output and cost of fuel. If they replace the trolley's with the new electric buses coming available then there is no worry of those routes needing to detour either planned or caused by incidents throughout the day.

I love trolleys and want them to always be a part of Vancouver, but the reality of the situation is buses such as the XE40's are much more reliable and possibly cheaper than trolleys.

Trolleybuses are ubiquitous in Central and Eastern Europe, with Russia having the largest number of systems. It’s one of the few countries where trolleybuses are rolled out of the production line. They are WAY cheaper over there than battery-electric buses because the market over there is much bigger than North America.

Why is everybody insisting on getting rid of the trolleys in that forum?

[LeftCoaster]

The trolleys are going to be phased out over time. I'm not sure if this has been officially announced but Translink is beginning the shift to battery operated buses in the long term.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The trolleys are going to be phased out over time. I'm not sure if this has been officially announced but Translink is beginning the shift to battery operated buses in the long term.

That's unfortunate, but if they are retired as they get old that's ok. Trolleys do cause some issues and the wires are ugly.

If done properly, regenerative braking can help power usage and brake wear significantly in battery powered buses.