Amazon HQ2 bid

[Triptychtwo]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

In that Reddit thread, the user named "time_for pretzels" makes a fair rebuttal:

"Why not link to a source that puts that quote into context? That's just a definition. The only place the term is used in the document is in this paragraph:...

...This is just saying that the project owner won't try to seek funding from other government agencies/authorities besides Invest Atlanta UNLESS the project is part of a "Major Economic Development Opportunity", AKA Amazon HQ2.

This doesn't mean they're voting on an HQ2 tax incentive proposal at all, it means that they can only go after more funding if we do get HQ2.

The actual document for anyone who wants to read it:"


In response, after being pressed by another user named "Autolycus25" (also an active user on City Data), Triptychtwo finally admits that he's merely speculating and doesn't know for sure that Amazon has selected Atlanta:

"Reaching? I've stated very clearly this is not definitive evidence that HQ2 is coming to Atlanta, but certainly an interesting data point that they are voting on language that clearly refers to HQ2.

Invest Atlanta is city of Atlanta only entity, has nothing to do with the State of Georgia. This is language preventing CIM from receiving any other incentives from the State, which would be the exception in a majority of the cases.

This is standard? You only get to deal with the COA? Or nothing at all? And for a $4 BILLION dollar project? That would impact the entire state and region? No transportation incentives, no energy incentives, no other economic incentives of any kind? Oh and by the way you take the risk on the bonds? COA has no exposure?

I guess we'll see who's right/wrong in a few weeks, looking forward to it."

Guys, if this were rock solid evidence then it would be widely reported as such. The point is, it's something, in a year long search that has produced very little hard evidence of anything. You know how many people have written about Bezos' house in DC like that was "hard evidence." This is certainly one of the more interesting data points that has come out of the search. I never thought this was a smoking gun, just like I never thought that the report of 675 getting leased was the smoking gun. But to have a little nugget to chew on that makes it obvious the city is referencing HQ2 when writing legal documents is pretty interesting and fun to speculate, certainly more than most other cities have to go on right now.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Triptychtwo

Guys, if this were rock solid evidence then it would be widely reported as such. The point is, it's something, in a year long search that has produced very little hard evidence of anything. You know how many people have written about Bezos' house in DC like that was "hard evidence." This is certainly one of the more interesting data points that has come out of the search. I never thought this was a smoking gun, just like I never thought that the report of 675 getting leased was the smoking gun. But to have a little nugget to chew on that makes it obvious the city is referencing HQ2 when writing legal documents is pretty interesting and fun to speculate, certainly more than most other cities have to go on right now.

I would argue it is more a mouthful than a nugget because a lot folks here are choking on understanding the big picture.

[skyscraperpage17]

I just hope you guys are right in thinking Amazon has already selected Atlanta, that's all. It's fun to speculate, but thinking it's a done deal without definitive evidence to back it up is an entirely different story.

And to be clear, I also think the conclusions being made based on where Bezos owns a home are also ridiculous. It's all tea leaf reading.

[Calidreaming01]

Well for me, this evidence is conclusive. To call it a smoking gun is an understatement. I'm not sure if it's that people don't want to get their hopes up (or dashed), that they just don't understand the significance of what is going on here, or are just being willfully obtuse. We're at the point where contracts have been drawn up and Atlanta 3000 has actually even posted the actual document, leases have been executed, and local politicians are having votes to commit real $$$$. The only thing that can make this 100% conclusive at this point is an actual announcement from Amazon.

Since Mayor Bottoms stated that she was more concerned about the "optics" of the delay, it seems that this deal is too far along for the City Council to scuttle it entirely, but it sounds like they can make things more complicated than they should be.

[Khantilever]

I think you guys are really stretching this. The simplest reading is that this is the baseline incentive agreement which can be amended if Amazon comes to town. How is that slam dunk evidence that they are coming? It seems to me the opposite, if anything.

The fact that money is being committed is not special. As an example—and I do not mean to start a city war here, since I don’t think Chicago will win—one of Chicago’s proposed sites just had the State actually budget $500m for a UIllinois innovation center campus on the site, plus the City has already approved zoning for the development (more than enough sq footage for Amazon). But the reason the city and state moved so fast is not because Amazon is coming; if anything, it’s the opposite—they’re worried Amazon isn’t coming.

[robertjhajek]

Originally Posted by Khantilever

I think you guys are really stretching this. The simplest reading is that this is the baseline incentive agreement which can be amended if Amazon comes to town. How is that slam dunk evidence that they are coming? It seems to me the opposite, if anything.

The fact that money is being committed is not special. As an example—and I do not mean to start a city war here, since I don’t think Chicago will win—one of Chicago’s proposed sites just had the State actually budget $500m for a UIllinois innovation center campus on the site, plus the City has already approved zoning for the development (more than enough sq footage for Amazon). But the reason the city and state moved so fast is not because Amazon is coming; if anything, it’s the opposite—they’re worried Amazon isn’t coming.

This is exactly my thought as well. It's not a good thing guys.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Khantilever

I think you guys are really stretching this. The simplest reading is that this is the baseline incentive agreement which can be amended if Amazon comes to town. How is that slam dunk evidence that they are coming? It seems to me the opposite, if anything.

The fact that money is being committed is not special. As an example—and I do not mean to start a city war here, since I don’t think Chicago will win—one of Chicago’s proposed sites just had the State actually budget $500m for a UIllinois innovation center campus on the site, plus the City has already approved zoning for the development (more than enough sq footage for Amazon). But the reason the city and state moved so fast is not because Amazon is coming; if anything, it’s the opposite—they’re worried Amazon isn’t coming.

To catch you up to speed since you are from Chicago - OUR MAYOR ON TUESDAY IN FRONT OF THE CITY COUNCIL SAID SHE NEEDED THIS SIGNED BY MONDAY BECAUSE IT COULD IMPACT A FORTUNE 500 RELOCATION. I even provided a link to the video of the City Council meeting - did you watch it? So your,

one of Chicago’s proposed sites just had the State actually budget $500m for a UIllinois innovation center campus on the site, plus the City has already approved zoning for the development (more than enough sq footage for Amazon).

is not an apples to apples comparison to what is happening right now in Atlanta.

Normally I don't mind folks from other cities coming here, but at this conjecture to come here without reading the Agreement in full or watching the City Council meeting (I posted), you are disrupting the conversation because you don't have all the facts.

[scania]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

I just hope you guys are right in thinking Amazon has already selected Atlanta, that's all. It's fun to speculate, but thinking it's a done deal without definitive evidence to back it up is an entirely different story.

And to be clear, I also think the conclusions being made based on where Bezos owns a home are also ridiculous. It's all tea leaf reading.

Look at it this way...can you imagine what some people on this forum would be saying if Bezos bought a home here? Its crazy how any little thing for Atlanta means that Amazon is coming here, but any other city it doesn't mean anything. Lets not fall in-love with wishful thinking.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

To catch you up to speed since you are from Chicago - OUR MAYOR ON TUESDAY IN FRONT OF THE CITY COUNCIL SAID SHE NEEDED THIS SIGNED BY MONDAY BECAUSE IT COULD IMPACT A FORTUNE 500 RELOCATION. I even provided a link to the video of the City Council meeting - did you watch it? So your,

is not an apples to apples comparison to what is happening right now in Atlanta.

Normally I don't mind folks from other cities coming here, but at this conjecture to come here without reading the Agreement in full or watching the City Council meeting (I posted), you are disrupting the conversation because you don't have all the facts.

Hey...behave yourself! LOL...just joking

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by robertjhajek

This is exactly my thought as well. It's not a good thing guys.

Help me understand why you don't see this as a good thing?

Do you really believe the Mayor and the Governor are so desperate for a Gulch development they are ready to hand over $1.2 Billion in incentives to CIM Group without the promise of any jobs?

CIM Group has to make a $500 Million investment out of pocket to cover the cost of the infrastructure to bring the project to street level. Do you think they are doing this so they can build apartments, retail and hotels? Also per the Agreement, CIM Group is legally bound to spend a minimum of $4 Billion on the development. Do you think they would make this commitment without Amazon?

Again the Mayor plead to the City Council Tuesday, she needs the Agreement signed by Monday or it could effect a Fortune 500 corporate relocation. Do you think Mayor Bottoms lied to the City Council? Do you think this is all about Norfolk Southern and their possible 1400 jobs? Do you think there is another company........etc?

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by scania

Hey...behave yourself! LOL...just joking

[Atlanta3000]

Most importantly....

To all of you with heard mentality that think this is going to DC because that is what you were told by the Media.......

Jeff Bezos and the Amazon board are in DC this week for several events. Don't you think if DC was going to be selected it would be this week? Just using common damn sense. However, Amazon PR came out and shut that shit down and said no announcement this week. Square the circle naysayers!

[paytonc]

I'm glad you all are coming around to my reading of the contract.

Why haven't you seen similar documents for other cities? Remember that Amazon has asked for complete nondisclosure.

"when officials in Montgomery County, Md., did respond to a request for information on their bid, they delivered, among other items, a 10-page document of incentives — with every single line of text redacted."

And remember that even if a metro-level decision had been made, final site selection could still involve further local negotiations within those regions which have multiple bids.

Also a reminder: ad hominem insults aren't useful.

[BlueSangha]

Also a reminder: (ad hominem insults-redundant phrasing) aren't useful.[/QUOTE]

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by paytonc

Also a reminder: ad hominem insults aren't useful.

Hey Paytonc we speak English or "Southern" English on the Atlanta forum.

[crmr298]

So seems to me that it's clear the city/CIM are deep in discussions with Amazon. Only question is are other cities at similar points in the process and just handling it more discretely.

[AlwaysMoving]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Help me understand why you don't see this as a good thing?

Let me start by saying I think the redevelopment of the gulch site is huge whether it involves Amazon or not. The economic epicenter of metro Atlanta is between midtown and perimeter, and it's been slowly moving out until the last 5 years when midtown has come on strong. Adding 8-10 million sqft of office space at the gulch will dramatically shift the epicenter South. With the nixing of the redline extension there is no way executives are commuting to the gulch site from Alpharetta and Forsyth County. This is huge for the southern half of the metro.

Do you really believe the Mayor and the Governor are so desperate for a Gulch development they are ready to hand over $1.2 Billion in incentives to CIM Group without the promise of any jobs?

The City is forgoing the increase in property tax for a few decades after the project is completed. I don't believe the Governor has offered any incentives to CIM. The Governor's office will surely offer incentives to any out of state business that locates new jobs at this site. I do believe that it is smart for the City of Atlanta to forgo the potential tax increases to nudge a project like this forward.

CIM Group has to make a $500 Million investment out of pocket to cover the cost of the infrastructure to bring the project to street level. Do you think they are doing this so they can build apartments, retail and hotels? Also per the Agreement, CIM Group is legally bound to spend a minimum of $4 Billion on the development. Do you think they would make this commitment without Amazon?

People connected to CIM have said publicly that this deal was in the works before Amazon announced a search for a HQ2 and the project will happen with or without Amazon. I see no reason to not believe them.

Again the Mayor plead to the City Council Tuesday, she needs the Agreement signed by Monday or it could effect a Fortune 500 corporate relocation. Do you think Mayor Bottoms lied to the City Council? Do you think this is all about Norfolk Southern and their possible 1400 jobs? Do you think there is another company........etc?

I've underlined the important part. "could" is one heck of a qualifier and Norfolk Southern is smack dab in the middle of the Fortune 500 at #284.

I love your passion, but I don't think it's helpful to attack people who present facts that don't align with your views. None of us know for sure where Amazon is going and it's just a fun conversation.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by AlwaysMoving

Let me start by saying I think the redevelopment of the gulch site is huge whether it involves Amazon or not. The economic epicenter of metro Atlanta is between midtown and perimeter, and it's been slowly moving out until the last 5 years when midtown has come on strong. Adding 8-10 million sqft of office space at the gulch will dramatically shift the epicenter South. With the nixing of the redline extension there is no way executives are commuting to the gulch site from Alpharetta and Forsyth County. This is huge for the southern half of the metro.

YAAASS!!!

*waves hand and shouts Hallelujah in Madea's voice*

Although actually getting major tech employers there will be critical, as that's mostly what's driving all of the quality development and growth way out to Dawsonville.

And maintaining the infrastructure for the MMPT in the future will also be critical.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by AlwaysMoving

Let me start by saying I think the redevelopment of the gulch site is huge whether it involves Amazon or not. The economic epicenter of metro Atlanta is between midtown and perimeter, and it's been slowly moving out until the last 5 years when midtown has come on strong. Adding 8-10 million sqft of office space at the gulch will dramatically shift the epicenter South. With the nixing of the redline extension there is no way executives are commuting to the gulch site from Alpharetta and Forsyth County. This is huge for the southern half of the metro.




The City is forgoing the increase in property tax for a few decades after the project is completed. I don't believe the Governor has offered any incentives to CIM. The Governor's office will surely offer incentives to any out of state business that locates new jobs at this site. I do believe that it is smart for the City of Atlanta to forgo the potential tax increases to nudge a project like this forward.



People connected to CIM have said publicly that this deal was in the works before Amazon announced a search for a HQ2 and the project will happen with or without Amazon. I see no reason to not believe them.



I've underlined the important part. "could" is one heck of a qualifier and Norfolk Southern is smack dab in the middle of the Fortune 500 at #284.

I love your passion, but I don't think it's helpful to attack people who present facts that don't align with your views. None of us know for sure where Amazon is going and it's just a fun conversation.

AlwaysDrinkin' - I want you to be the first in line to kiss my country @$$ when Amazon makes the announcement.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by scania

Look at it this way...can you imagine what some people on this forum would be saying if Bezos bought a home here? Its crazy how any little thing for Atlanta means that Amazon is coming here, but any other city it doesn't mean anything. Lets not fall in-love with wishful thinking.

What scares me is the backlash that will ensue if Atlanta isn't selected, despite all of the tea leaf reading.