Phoenix Development News (3)

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

No they went out there because downtown doesn't have the address glamour worthy of paying the extra cost for the land and taller buildings downtown. Not to mention Insurance companies are fans of large suburban campuses over large downtown towers. This isnt a HQ

Its one of 3 regional HQs - much like the State Farm setup in Tempe. Similar amount of employees too. IIRC State Farm did consider downtown - but wanted Tempe to be close to ASU. I get the 'glamor' of a Scottsdale address - and it will be fun to watch the airpark slowly creep vertical in both that location and near Kierland - but you know...

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Obadno

No they went out there because downtown doesn't have the address glamour worthy of paying the extra cost for the land and taller buildings downtown. Not to mention Insurance companies are fans of large suburban campuses over large downtown towers. This isnt a HQ

That's not always true. Nationwide's national headquarters is actually located in One Nationwide Plaza, a 485' tower in Downtown Columbus and they have been there since 1977. Also, Queen City Square in Cincinnati has a 664' tower that was completed around 7 years ago and it was branded Great American Tower when Great American Insurance moved in and made it their corporate headquarters. It can be done. Cincinnati pulled it off during the recession. Phoenix just has to have more to offer for these type of developments and a little less griping from nearby residential would certainly help. These 2 cities don't get a lot of pushback for tall towers in or around Downtown. Phoenix gets a lot of flack for anything they want to build over 250' it seems.

I was building up to another point, but I'm tired and completely lost my thought on where I was going. Sorry for the ramble

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Probably not. I don't expect this project to really go that far. But it's the asinine attitude any time someone proposes something here that's not a single level house that drives me nuts. Many projects have died because of the threats of community action, lawsuits, etc. These NIMBY attitudes are now even looking to affect future light rail developments. When is the part of the community that actually wants these type of developments going to finally stand up instead of letting the few dictate what is built? I'm sure a lot of prospective developers and businesses see this attitude which is why a lot goes to business parks instead of the core.

To be fair, some of this NIMBYism is really a misrepresentation by media outfits like ABC. ABC literally went into a Next-door (a local social media space) conversation that was 4-1 pro-building this project and pro density to get the few antis to be part of this feature. When I go to the planning/zoning meetings, you get the same NIMBY song and dance, but many folks who are pro density show up as well. Most of these projects just get approved UNLESS there is a powerful and/or monied person who doesn't want it to happen.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

That's not always true. Nationwide's national headquarters is actually located in One Nationwide Plaza, a 485' tower in Downtown Columbus and they have been there since 1977. Also, Queen City Square in Cincinnati has a 664' tower that was completed around 7 years ago and it was branded Great American Tower when Great American Insurance moved in and made it their corporate headquarters. It can be done. Cincinnati pulled it off during the recession. Phoenix just has to have more to offer for these type of developments and a little less griping from nearby residential would certainly help. These 2 cities don't get a lot of pushback for tall towers in or around Downtown. Phoenix gets a lot of flack for anything they want to build over 250' it seems.

I was building up to another point, but I'm tired and completely lost my thought on where I was going. Sorry for the ramble

These are headquarters you're talking about, not branch operations. The closest thing we have to a regional insurance operation downtown is State Farm in Tempe which only happened with a land deal and a big enough chunk of dirt to support one of the nation's largest parking complexes. The modern realities of providing parking for large buildings old and new makes Downtown an even harder sell than it has been in the past.

Anyone who wants to build big can do it in Phoenix, it's just been demonstrated there's no demand for it--CityScape and Transwestern are on spec. The handful of reasonably tall towers downtown that weren't built to be sold were all originally built as bank headquarters.

[haux]

More roof junk going up on The Stewart. I should have taken a picture from the north side, but just believe me that its roof is being built up too.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by combusean

These are headquarters you're talking about, not branch operations. The closest thing we have to a regional insurance operation downtown is State Farm in Tempe which only happened with a land deal and a big enough chunk of dirt to support one of the nation's largest parking complexes. The modern realities of providing parking for large buildings old and new makes Downtown an even harder sell than it has been in the past.

Anyone who wants to build big can do it in Phoenix, it's just been demonstrated there's no demand for it--CityScape and Transwestern are on spec. The handful of reasonably tall towers downtown that weren't built to be sold were all originally built as bank headquarters.

Went back and re-read Obadno's post. I didn't realize he was specifically speaking of Regional HQ's. Yea, I can understand why you would build those in Suburban areas due to the space needed. State Farm would need a 750' tower to fill it's campus into one building. If only...

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

To be fair, some of this NIMBYism is really a misrepresentation by media outfits like ABC. ABC literally went into a Next-door (a local social media space) conversation that was 4-1 pro-building this project and pro density to get the few antis to be part of this feature. When I go to the planning/zoning meetings, you get the same NIMBY song and dance, but many folks who are pro density show up as well. Most of these projects just get approved UNLESS there is a powerful and/or monied person who doesn't want it to happen.

You must be looking at a different thread on NextDoor than I am. I just went through it and, prior to the Channel 15 guy showing up, I count 8 against, 15 for, and the rest informational or neutral. More for than against but not even close to 4-1.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

You must be looking at a different thread on NextDoor than I am. I just went through it and, prior to the Channel 15 guy showing up, I count 8 against, 15 for, and the rest informational or neutral. More for than against but not even close to 4-1.

Fair enough. 2-1, rather than 3 or 4-1. Mine was a cursory read, but I think you might agree that the NIMBY types are usually the loudest, and that it seems that representing a 1/3 loud group as being representative is not very accurate. The vast majority of folks don't give a rat's 🞵🞵🞵, and outnumbering the complainers 2-1 means that these NIMBY folks are a pretty tiny slice of the population.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

Fair enough. 2-1, rather than 3 or 4-1. Mine was a cursory read, but I think you might agree that the NIMBY types are usually the loudest, and that it seems that representing a 1/3 loud group as being representative is not very accurate. The vast majority of folks don't give a rat's 🞵🞵🞵, and outnumbering the complainers 2-1 means that these NIMBY folks are a pretty tiny slice of the population.

It will be interesting to see what kind of turnout we get at tonight's Village Planning Committee meeting.

[fawd]

Phoenix Business Journal is reporting that the Stewart will start delivering units before the end of the year.... and the first 5 floors are already move-in ready....

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2018/09/10/newest-apartment-tower-in-downtown-phoenix.html


They moved quick!!!!

[biggus diggus]

It's really fascinating how many people can be working on those large buildings at one time. It wouldn't surprise me if some units at Link are already framed out also.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

It will be interesting to see what kind of turnout we get at tonight's Village Planning Committee meeting.

The motion to deny the application passed 9-2. For the record I was one of the two. Opposition showed up in force, many of them in custom made red t shirts.

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

The motion to deny the application passed 9-2. For the record I was one of the two. Opposition showed up in force, many of them in custom made red t shirts.

What a joke. The renderings made it look like a new version of the (iconic) Phoenix Towers.

The opposition would have an argument at 7th St. & Bethany Home... not Thomas.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

What a joke. The renderings made it look like a new version of the (iconic) Phoenix Towers.

The opposition would have an argument at 7th St. & Bethany Home... not Thomas.

Im confused what was denied for what?

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

What a joke. The renderings made it look like a new version of the (iconic) Phoenix Towers.

The opposition would have an argument at 7th St. & Bethany Home... not Thomas.

....and I rest my case about the NIMBY'ism in this city. What a way to kill redevelopment in this area.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Im confused what was denied for what?

The Encanto VPC recommended denial for Z-41-18-4 which seeks to rezone a 2.94 parcel at the NE corner of Thomas and 7th St from P1 to R5-HR. This is the proposed residential high rise at the Phoenix Country Club. The Planning Commission will hear the case October 4th.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

....and I rest my case about the NIMBY'ism in this city. What a way to kill redevelopment in this area.

I disagree whole heartedly that 7th Street and Thomas is a good place for high density development, It's surrounded on three sides by historic districts and the entire point of buying a home in that area is to be as near downtown as possible while still maintaining the character and comfort of a historic single family neighborhood.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I disagree whole heartedly that 7th Street and Thomas is a good place for high density development, It's surrounded on three sides by historic districts and the entire point of buying a home in that area is to be as near downtown as possible while still maintaining the character and comfort of a historic single family neighborhood.

2 sides. La Hacienda to the west and Country Club Park to the south. For what it's worth, Roosevelt and Willo are both adjacent to high rise development and they seem to do just fine.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I disagree whole heartedly that 7th Street and Thomas is a good place for high density development, It's surrounded on three sides by historic districts and the entire point of buying a home in that area is to be as near downtown as possible while still maintaining the character and comfort of a historic single family neighborhood.

There are several Midtown towers (that are much taller than this proposal I might add) that border historic 1 level homes. I don't see a problem with any of those homes selling when they go on the market.

[biggus diggus]

What's already there is already there (on central) which doesn't mean we have to accept more of it in back yards.