YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[LeftCoaster]

In other news Cathay will be deploying their reconfigured 77HDs to Vancouver starting Oct 28th:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...ity-boeing-777-operations-as-of-31aug18/

Should be about an 8% capacity bump over the non HD. They are only going HD on the three class flight, not yet on the four class that carries on to JFK, we'll see if that's to come.

Also United cancelled their SFO-YYJ (Victoria) service. Unfortunate for Victoria but could result in a bit of a bump on YVR-SFO services as they get routed through YVR.

[Alpine]

Does Transport Canada release PDEW data for non-U.S., non-charter/leisure/freight international routes (from Canadian destinations) to the public, like the FAA does?

Is there any public data at all (or even data behind an academic paywall) for actual/potential passenger demand regarding these kinds of routes? From a broader perspective, are there any traffic statistics for which connecting carriers/hubs people travellers use to get to a non-direct destination? e.g. YVR-SIN:

• __ pax via TPE (CI), __ pax via TPE (AC/BR)
• __ pax via ICN (KE), __ pax via ICN (AC/SQ)
• __ pax via NRT (JL)
• __ pax via SFO (UA)
• __ pax via CAN (CZ)

By the way, I've found it can be $100-200 cheaper to connect in SFO/LAX than in Taiwan, Beijing, Narita, etc. depending on the date. But are the savings worth having to go through U.S. customs?

Edit: I was aimlessly browsing Google Flights today and I found YVR-BLR fares from BA for $1,000 CAD. Bengaluru is a city that I've always wanted to visit (the tech hub of India), and I'm surprised flying through Seattle on AS/EK costs an additional $700; aren't subcontinent destinations like Bengaluru EK's bread and butter?

The downside is that the dates are at the tail end of the monsoon, and require an overnight stay in London. You can check out the itinerary here: https://goo.gl/flights/L8pwN

Another thing that just popped into my head: Considering Vancouver's large Jewish and Persian communities, could a 3x weekly YVR-TLV or YVR-IKA nonstop be sustained? The 789 could do both.

[Johnny Aussie]

duplicate

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by zahav

YVR has never been a major international sun destination airport, mainly owing to the winters not being as harsh so less people make those trips (endless rain doesn't count, it may be depressing but it's not -40 and unable to leave your house). Every major airport (including Calgary as mentioned) always had a bigger sun destination footprint, more variety of destinations and flights. And those markets are strictly leisure, so it's no surprise that the destinations and frequencies are fairly stable. Hawaii is also basically a sun destination but falls into the transborder category, just like Florida for the East Coast.

I personally don't mind having a limited sun destination roster, we have good year round flights to Asia, Australia, Europe, I don't think there's anyone really missing that Punta Cana non-stop flight :p

YVR will have 95 flights per week to Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean this winter. That’s still a significant amount and an increase over last winter.
YYC will have 104 of which 73 of those will be on Westjet.
YYC would have way fewer flights on WS if it wasn’t for their hub.
To compare also, YEG will have only 39 non-US sun flights per week this winter.

Throw in all the sun destinations to the US (including Hawaii) and YVR is miles ahead of both YYC and YEG so I’m not sure your reference point saying YVR is poorly served.

Again just for comparison YVR to Hawaii will have 77 weekly compared to only 13 from YYC and only 2 from YEG.

Conclusion:

YVR is very well connected for passengers seeking the sun.

And you can still get to PUJ nonstop on Sunwing

Don’t get me started on comparing long haul routes

If you really want to seek the sun from YVR in the winter how about a nice trip dowununder!

28 weekly flights to SYD, AKL, BNE or MEL on your choice of 3 carriers

[zahav]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

YVR will have 95 flights per week to Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean this winter. That’s still a significant amount and an increase over last winter.
YYC will have 104 of which 73 of those will be on Westjet.
YYC would have way fewer flights on WS if it wasn’t for their hub. To compare also, YEG will have only 39 flights.

Throw in all the sun destinations to the US (including Hawaii) and YVR is miles ahead of both YYC and YEG so I’m not sure your reference point saying YVR is poorly served.

Again just for comparison YVR to Hawaii will have 77 weekly compared to only 13 from YYC and only 2 from YEG.

Conclusion:

YVR is very well connected for passengers seeking the sun.

And you can still get to PUJ nonstop on Sunwing

Don’t get me started on comparing long haul routes

If you really want to seek the sun from YVR in the winter how about a nice trip dowununder!

28 weekly flights to SYD, AKL, BNE or MEL on your choice of 3 carriers

I wasn't trying to downplay YVR (I'm a big YVR booster LOL) I was trying to show how YVR relies proportionally less on international sun vacations for its international numbers than many other airports, which is a positive IMO. Firstly if you were counting MEX in your numbers then you shouldn't, it isn't a sun vacation destination like PVR or CUN. I put MEX in the same category as major international world cities and capitals, not with the beach flights.

And with the US and Australia flights, I agree those are great sun destinations, but again they aren't in the category I was mentioning. I'm thrilled we have service to 3 Aussie destinations plus NZ non-stop, that was my point, I'm glad we can have unique services like that and year-round heavy service to major international cities than have more one-off weeklies to different sun spots in the Caribbean

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by zahav

I wasn't trying to downplay YVR (I'm a big YVR booster LOL) I was trying to show how YVR relies proportionally less on international sun vacations for its international numbers than many other airports, which is a positive IMO. Firstly if you were counting MEX in your numbers then you shouldn't, it isn't a sun vacation destination like PVR or CUN. I put MEX in the same category as major international world cities and capitals, not with the beach flights.

And with the US and Australia flights, I agree those are great sun destinations, but again they aren't in the category I was mentioning. I'm thrilled we have service to 3 Aussie destinations plus NZ non-stop, that was my point, I'm glad we can have unique services like that and year-round heavy service to major international cities than have more one-off weeklies to different sun spots in the Caribbean

Yup hard to compare sun flying when each market is unique. Vancouver still very heavily Hawaii focussed (just look at those O&D figures!) and to include / exclude LAX? From places like YEG and YYC definitely but from YVR a bit trickier due to business ties. In any event YVR very well connected with a tremendous number of sun destinations to choose from. AM and 4O use MEX as a hub with a plethora of other Mexican and Central American beach destinations. PHX, DFW and IAH also the same with a large number of beach destinations. PHX definitely a sun destination in its own right but not so much for DFW or IAH. PHX, PSP, MCO and LAS considered “sun destinations” but not with beaches.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Alpine

Does Transport Canada release PDEW data for non-U.S., non-charter/leisure/freight international routes (from Canadian destinations) to the public, like the FAA does?

No. Only transborder. Don't know why, but it is what it is.

Originally Posted by Alpine

Considering Vancouver's large Jewish and Persian communities, could a 3x weekly YVR-TLV or YVR-IKA nonstop be sustained? The 789 could do both.

Large Jewish population? Might want to do some research before saying that. Canada's Jewish population is heavily centered around Toronto and Montreal.

As for IKA, airlines like BA, AF, KL and A3 are canceling their recently launched services to IKA. That should tell you all you need to know about a potential YVR-IKA. Trump's renewed efforts to restore sanctions against Iran is negatively impacting all foreign airlines that fly there.

BTW, Toronto's Iranian community is twice as large as Vancouver's, so even if AC was interested in starting IKA, it would be from YYZ, not YVR.

[Johnny Aussie]

So how many overseas flights will YVR have this winter?

YVR will have 221-223 flights per week (depending on the month)
YYC will have 27 (24 of those to Europe).
YEG will have 2-3 (depending on the month)

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

So how many overseas flights will YVR have this winter?

YVR will have 221-223 flights per week (depending on the month)
YYC will have 27 (24 of those to Europe).
YEG will have 2-3 (depending on the month)

Comparing YVR to YYC/YEG is pointless. Apples and oranges.

You need to compare it to YYZ/YUL. Much more interesting.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Comparing YVR to YYC/YEG is pointless. Apples and oranges.

You need to compare it to YYZ/YUL. Much more interesting.

Maybe for you.

My interest is in Western Canada.

YYC’s international network is primarily sun flying.
YEG’s international network limited.
YVR’s international network much more global (Asia-Pacific focussed though - understandable).

There was a time not long ago YYC-Europe was a bit larger than YVR in the winter and a lot closer in the summer.

Pointless? Comparing to YYZ would be pointless... YYZ is in a league of its own.

As for the rest... not really interested.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

There was a time not long ago YYC-Europe was a bit larger than YVR in the winter and a lot closer in the summer.

Pointless? Comparing to YYZ would be pointless... YYZ is in a league of its own.

As for the rest... not really interested.

YYC-Europe larger than YVR-Europe in winter? When? Maybe when LH served YYC, but that was short lived, and for a reason. Even back then, YVR-Europe was probably still larger in terms of seats/week.

And YYZ/YVR are closer in terms of weekly overseas flights than YVR/YYC or YVR/YEG. So your comparison above is the definition of pointless.

That's like someone comparing overseas flights at YUL-YOW-YQB. Pointless.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Maybe for you.

My interest is in Western Canada.

YYC’s international network is primarily sun flying.
YEG’s international network limited.
YVR’s international network much more global (Asia-Pacific focussed though - understandable).

There was a time not long ago YYC-Europe was a bit larger than YVR in the winter and a lot closer in the summer.

Pointless? Comparing to YYZ would be pointless... YYZ is in a league of its own.

As for the rest... not really interested.

excellent counterpoint

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

excellent counterpoint

Thanks

Like I said my interest is in Western Canada. Totally different markets to Central and Eastern Canada. As a Canadian all of Canada interests me but for the purposes of this forum I’m not really interested in points east of Manitoba.

Being the YVR forum, he has his opinions (clearly) and I have mine.

YYC to Europe had 30 flights per week 2 winters ago... YVR had only 28. Frequencies more / seats less but YYC still had more flights. Once BA comes back (if it does) we will see if that changes next winter.
As it stands this winter to Europe YVR will have 30-32 flights per week (depending on the month) and YYC will have 24.

[osirisboy]

July stats should be ready. Who's the person that has emailed them and got them to release them? Lol

[Johnny Aussie]

Speaking of Europe....

FI increasing YVR-KEF to 6 weekly next summer.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...ir-s19-network-expansions-as-of-06sep18/

FI697 KEF1715 – 1800YVR 75W x6
FI698 YVR1900 – 0905+1KEF 75W x6

Much better utilisation rather than sitting overnight.

[LeftCoaster]

Great news, I wonder if WOW has any interest? The two carriers usually mirror services.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Great news, I wonder if WOW has any interest? The two carriers usually mirror services.

WOW's fleet unfortunately won't allow a West Coast service with its sector length.

[LeftCoaster]

Well that can't be true, they already serve LAX and SFO.

They fly the A320NEO and A321NEO both of which should easily have the legs. They also have A330s, 3 in service and 4 on order.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well that can't be true, they already serve LAX and SFO.

They fly the A320NEO and A321NEO both of which should easily have the legs. They also have A330s, 3 in service and 4 on order.

Not sure about the range of their A321neo if it could make it? Westbound may be tough?

They fly the A330s to SFO and LAX which would be way too big for YVR I think.

The Icelandair schedule change is part of a pretty big overhaul of their hub banking at KEF. Be curious to see if they keep it 6 weekly year round.

The seasonality between Western Canada and Europe is so pronounced.

YVR will have 30-32 flights per week this winter but with Icelandair’s announced increase to 6 weekly next summer there will be 104 weekly flights to Europe from YVR.... schedules far from finalised but that’s where it stands now.
YYC goes from 24 this winter to 42 next summer (again, as it stands now)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well that can't be true, they already serve LAX and SFO.

They fly the A320NEO and A321NEO both of which should easily have the legs. They also have A330s, 3 in service and 4 on order.

Would Vancouver be big enough to provide the market for Icelandair and WOW Air? It would be great if it could, as I understand WOW Air is very reasonably priced.