Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

our roadways were once great, back when WAC was in charge. just like how BC Rail was great, same reason. and then YVR as well.

It sucks that after Expo 86, we've regressed into what have we become now.
I cringed when I read the bolded words stump posted.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The proposal calls for six lanes of new tunnel plus three from the old one. Ten minus nine gives one less lane... whose savings are probably going to be used up on replacing the old tunnel within a decade anyway.

Since some morons are complaining about "muh induced demand", I propose that we just have a single lane crossing and just have cars take turns. Less lanes, less demand, less traffic, less pollution. I just made the world a better place. /sarcasm

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

haha our roadways are crap for the most part. though BC Rail did do a good job...

What did BC Rail do for roadways?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

What did BC Rail do for roadways?

i meant BC Rail for rail in BC. i was comparing the various industries to themselves. as in YVR is a good airport, Port of Vancouver is a good port, BC Rail was a good railway. and at one point our Ministry of Highways created good roads.

i wasn't saying each one was good for roads.

[SgtNeonPanda]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

our roadways were once great, back when WAC was in charge.

If our tax and GDP levels matched the WAC days, maybe it'd be possible again.

[waves]

What I don't understand is why do the next steps have to be identified before the report is released. Maybe they think the public is not smart enough to understand the report in full? Maybe they intend on prolonging the next steps for as long as possible?

Can we submit an FOI request for it?

Originally Posted by stump

Got a reply back asking for that information:

Thank you for your inquiry. As outlined below, the Ministry is still reviewing the report for possible next steps so a final release date has not yet been identified. Please feel free to contact me by telephone at 250-356-0514 if you have further questions.

Thank you,

Lisa Gow
Executive Director
Major Projects and Alternate Procurement
Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure

I googled her name for curiosity sake and found this 2009 article with her.

https://www.trucknews.com/features/poised-for-growth/

"Canada’s Pacific Gateway offers Asian shippers the most direct route between Asia and North America, thanks to B. C.’s “integrated, secure, reliable transportation network” consisting of world class airports, seaports, railways, roadways and border crossings."

[M00dy]

Originally Posted by waves

What I don't understand is why do the next steps have to be identified before the report is released. Maybe they think the public is not smart enough to understand the report in full? Maybe they intend on prolonging the next steps for as long as possible?

Can we submit an FOI request for it?

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Since some morons are complaining about "muh induced demand", I propose that we just have a single lane crossing and just have cars take turns. Less lanes, less demand, less traffic, less pollution. I just made the world a better place. /sarcasm

Don't give them any ideas.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Since some morons are complaining about "muh induced demand", I propose that we just have a single lane crossing and just have cars take turns. Less lanes, less demand, less traffic, less pollution. I just made the world a better place. /sarcasm

Insults or not, induced demand is actually a thing that you can't just ignore away.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by SgtNeonPanda

If our tax and GDP levels matched the WAC days, maybe it'd be possible again.

Keep in mind that tax base and much of the GDP levels were due to WAC's exemplary vision to invest in infrastructure such as roads and bridges etc. outside the lower mainland in order to open up the whole province to economic prosperity.

If the morons who run things today were in power back then, BC would have never gained economically like they did, and today would be Newfoundland West from an economic standpoint.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Insults or not, induced demand is actually a thing that you can't just ignore away.

That shouldn’t be used as an excuse to have a poor road infrastructure, such as having underbuilt free-flow interchanges (or lack thereof). Like I said before, I’m not asking for Hwy 99 to be like the 401; I’m asking it to not have a badly designed intersection that causes backups due to cars merging from the on-ramp to two lanes per direction for no reason. Also, it needs shoulder lanes.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

That shouldn’t be used as an excuse to have a poor road infrastructure, such as having underbuilt free-flow interchanges (or lack thereof). Like I said before, I’m not asking for Hwy 99 to be like the 401; I’m asking it to not have a badly designed intersection that causes backups due to cars merging from the on-ramp to two lanes per direction for no reason. Also, it needs shoulder lanes.

Yeah, that's perfectly fine. The two major problems traffic-wise with the Massey is that there are only four lanes total and getting into the three lanes (during counter-flow times) is a pain in the ass because of shitty interchanges and merges. It would be great if the number of cars per hour going under/over the river there wouldn't change but it was freer-flowing and less congested. That's really the ideal, isn't it?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It would be great if the number of cars per hour going under/over the river there wouldn't change but it was freer-flowing and less congested. That's really the ideal, isn't it?

If you mean transit to Ladner/Tsawwassen, the low population means that a B-Line isn't going to make much difference, and a SkyTrain extension isn't due 'till at least 2070.

If you mean just roadspace, the first objective would seem to contradict the second. Just like how we can't have kosher bacon.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If you mean transit to Ladner/Tsawwassen, the low population means that a B-Line isn't going to make much difference, and a SkyTrain extension isn't due 'till at least 2070.

If you mean just roadspace, the first objective would seem to contradict the second. Just like how we can't have kosher bacon.

No, I mean like how currently there are something like 45,000 vehicles per day going each way through the Massey Tunnel, and that if after the Massey Bridge gets put in the same number of vehicles still takes that crossing, but because of improved flow there isn't the massive congestion we currently see. If we can achieve that possibly by improved transit (and I'm not talking B-Line or SkyTrain, but some kind of transit priority system (dedicated lanes, transit-specific signalling getting them to merge quickly, etc)) then that's probably the best.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

No, I mean like how currently there are something like 45,000 vehicles per day going each way through the Massey Tunnel, and that if after the Massey Bridge gets put in the same number of vehicles still takes that crossing, but because of improved flow there isn't the massive congestion we currently see. If we can achieve that possibly by improved transit (and I'm not talking B-Line or SkyTrain, but some kind of transit priority system (dedicated lanes, transit-specific signalling getting them to merge quickly, etc)) then that's probably the best.

Not disagreeing, but it's practically gridlock at times right now - there's nowhere for buses to merge into at all with just three lanes. How would one achieve better transit flow without increasing road capacity, and by extension, demand?

[Klazu]

I was driving in the South Surrey area over the long weekend and it blew my mind how much development there is taking place in the Morgan Heights and Grandview Heights areas just east of Highway 99. There are blocks upon blocks of forest that has been cleared and hundreds of houses going up. It is really transforming the whole area to a huge suburbia.

Those houses will introduce thousands of new residents and thousands of new cars to the area, who all rely on an ancient FOUR LANE highway to get anywhere. It is mind-boggling how distanced from the real life our people in power are. It is pure and only thanks to the government's decades-long inaction with housing crisis and pandering to foreign investors that has led to hundreds of thousands of people having fled to these far-flung suburbias that are going up. This is the real story behind the congestion that has exploded all around us and not the population growth.

Highway 99 MUST be upgraded and with it the whole bridge. There is no demand to induce - it is already coming!!

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Highway 99 MUST be upgraded and with it the whole bridge. There is no demand to induce - it is already coming!!

Tough luck. The politicians will bring up the "induced demand" excuse to pander a few NIMBYists living close to Hwy 99. *cough* Malcolm Brodie *cough*

[dharper]

With all of that development in South Surrey, I wonder when 152nd street is ever going to be widened to four lanes, North to Highway 10.

[Klazu]

Most Lower Mainlanders are already living in the suburbia and their number is only growing. I am surprised not to see every political party speaking for these projects, as that is where future voting power is and this is something so concrete and daily that it must be a huge voting factor.

There is soon nobody left in the City of Vancouver to oppose these projects as everyone has been forced to move out. And I am only slightly exaggerating.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I was driving in the South Surrey area over the long weekend and it blew my mind how much development there is taking place in the Morgan Heights and Grandview Heights areas just east of Highway 99. There are blocks upon blocks of forest that has been cleared and hundreds of houses going up. It is really transforming the whole area to a huge suburbia.

Those houses will introduce thousands of new residents and thousands of new cars to the area, who all rely on an ancient FOUR LANE highway to get anywhere. It is mind-boggling how distanced from the real life our people in power are. It is pure and only thanks to the government's decades-long inaction with housing crisis and pandering to foreign investors that has led to hundreds of thousands of people having fled to these far-flung suburbias that are going up. This is the real story behind the congestion that has exploded all around us and not the population growth.

Highway 99 MUST be upgraded and with it the whole bridge. There is no demand to induce - it is already coming!!

I fully agree the massey tunnel does need to be replaced with something that can handle far more traffic. But at the same time I don't think we need something like a 2nd Port Mann bridge.

There is no doubt that South Surrey has a lot of housing developement. But how much land is there that can be developed. I feel like south surrey is an area that will rapidly develop for a short time. And then it will stall because there will be no more land to develop. So you would end up with an increase of traffic on the 99, but that increase would eventually plateau.

Maybe we need look at the idea of adding more crossings but not have them to be has big. So instead of 8-10 lane new Massey Bridge. Maybe a 6 lane new massey bridge plus a new 6 lane bridge across from Tilbury over to richmond and then another bridge from Richmond over to boundary road. And maybe not all those bridges would be built at once but that would be the long term goal. And over time the Oak, Knight, and Queensborugh bridges would be replaced with 6 lane bridges each.