[Moncton] Northwest/Magnetic Hill Developments

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

Bike lanes remain pending a study. It's the only rational decision after last week's knee-jerk motion. Funny how this forum typically rails against NIMBYism but it can't stand other changes that may require adaptation from the comfort of driving everywhere and parking anywhere.

Right, that's what we call going backwards. Not sure if you really understand that? Change is usually a good thing, not sure how an increase in traffic congestion and a reduction in safety for thousands is better just to maker it safer for maybe not even a dozen bikers each day. I guess I just don't see the logic in it. You'll have to explain that to me I guess.

[Feneant]

The new Medavie building on Gorge hasn't been moving since the land was cleared but with both the PC and the Green making this an election issue I assume they won't build until after the election so they don't lose the contract. Considering the liberals gave them the contract I imagine if they remain in power that this will proceed?

I was unable to locate them but I'm told there were a few articles about this where they indicated the contract would be creating nearly 400 jobs and giving that area an economic boost. I haven't been following the story so am not sure why people are so against this. My objection was mostly to the noise but after you all cleared up what would be going there I no longer have any issues with this and would love to see it benefit Mountain Woods. There remains about 600 lots in their original plans that have yet to be developed as the bulk of the Northwest developments are all in the Ryan Rd. area.

[gehrhardt]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Right, that's what we call going backwards. Not sure if you really understand that? Change is usually a good thing, not sure how an increase in traffic congestion and a reduction in safety for thousands is better just to maker it safer for maybe not even a dozen bikers each day. I guess I just don't see the logic in it. You'll have to explain that to me I guess.

Agreed. This is a high traffic (for Moncton) tourist area with several hotels, attractions, and businesses. The last thing the city should be doing is impeding traffic flow. The traffic on that section must be fun when a concert lets out at the Casino.

I agree there should be a safer option for cyclists in the area, but just putting them on the sides of the road and reducing traffic lanes seems like a solution without much thought. This all seems like a quick "Hey, we're paving it all anyway, so lets put in bike lanes" decision instead of a real traffic study.

The flip flop just makes it all worse. What I predict will happen now is that the bike lanes will remain from now on. Next year, the city will just say that they don't have the money to reconfigure it again, so tough luck .

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by Feneant

The new Medavie building on Gorge hasn't been moving since the land was cleared.

I never knew. They're constructing another large building? But how big, half that of their downtown building? That would be great!

[Ammn_guy]

Bike lanes aside, this change has slowed traffic down at least. I drive this area daily, one of the biggest issues outside of the summer traffic is people travelling excessivly fast down from front mountin.. it makes it near impossible to pull out of ensley and the irving and the highway exits...

This end of mountain rd like its an indy car race. all the way to gorge.. routinely i get passed by weaving cars doing 80ish km/hr by the home hardware.. cause i drive 60-70 myself, or i get tailgated the whole way to gorge.

As an avid biker I don't really think the lanes here are the right solution, i would not use them in this area.. the traffic is too erratic. They should extend the north west trail under the tch over pass and run it up the hill until the board walk. put a crosswalk at the boardwalk and at ensley and tch exits.

Another additional option would be to join the Mapleton/rabbit brook trail network to magnetic hill by by way of Mountian way estates.. if they build a dedicated trail up from Mapleton park (gorge rd) parking past Crandall and over to magnetic hill on the Water Sewer ROW or directly to the end of the Zoo, it would give most of the north end a quicker bike access via gorge rd on existing bike lanes. Maybe if they like asked the avid biker groups for ideas they would understand where they go and what they would actually use, and the pinch points.

[pierremoncton]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Right, that's what we call going backwards. Not sure if you really understand that? Change is usually a good thing, not sure how an increase in traffic congestion and a reduction in safety for thousands is better just to maker it safer for maybe not even a dozen bikers each day. I guess I just don't see the logic in it. You'll have to explain that to me I guess.

The point is that knee-jerk reactions are not rational nor productive. I'm in support of the bike lanes because I use them, but was the best option chosen? Maybe not; however:

If we're going to revert to four lanes because of anecdotal evidence, are we going to immediately reconfigure it back to three the next time a cyclist has a close call, and back-and-forth ad nauseum?

I have faith in the professionals working for the city, so let's give them time to figure things out. In the meantime, drivers need to adapt. There was tons of complaining when bike lanes were added to Salisbury Rd and Shediac Rd as well, because those roads could no longer be used as raceways.

Same for Mountain Rd now. If the current configuration is unsafe, that's because of bad drivers wanting to race like they did before. Those same bad drivers were much more dangerous to vulnerable cyclists than they are to other drivers protected in their vehicle.

[Feneant]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

I never knew. They're constructing another large building? But how big, half that of their downtown building? That would be great!

I don't think its replacing anything downtown, I think its mostly just an ambulance depot, maybe training center? I really don't have much details ... which is quite shameful considering I live right there- but then again half the neighborhood still thinks it's condos going in!

[Ammn_guy]

I agree the 4 direct complaints i have heard thus far was from colleagues i know that live in the whitfield trites/126 area , and are complaining about the speed limit reduction(slows their drive to work), blaming it on the bike lanes, (non residents.. that avoid paying city tax by want an expressway to work)

I believe the speed limit reduction was coming.. bike lanes or not, The 3 lanes.. like salisbury rd.. just force you to actually abide the limit.

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

Same for Mountain Rd now. If the current configuration is unsafe, that's because of bad drivers wanting to race like they did before. Those same bad drivers were much more dangerous to vulnerable cyclists than they are to other drivers protected in their vehicle.

[Ammn_guy]

This area has always bugged me. This is what I would do for bike trails.. (Yellow) hooking into northwest trail, and road adjustments (RED). I think that removing the west bound entry and exit ramps from their current location and adding a light at Ensley/mountain rd might eliminate the mess in front of the irving/mcdonalds.

The golf course rd would need to be moved or worked into the westbound exit.

I don't think this would be an expensive option.. i think that rd into the subdivision will eventually be built anyway.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

I'm all for bike lanes and making Moncton a better place to be. I think the bike lanes should still be put on a path off the road and the road shouldn't be choked or reduced. I bought bikes for my family but i still wouldn't take them on a bike lane beside vehicles. With all of the texting and people not paying attention while driving...... I mean i sold my motorcycle, I definitely wouldn't take a pedal bike on the road. But that's just me anyways. I just don't believe in doing things quickly, I believe in doing things right first. I definitely don't think that this is the best move. I think that Moncton needs to focus on being a better and bigger Moncton, rather than just being a regular "little city" that just keeps on copying what they do in the big cities and think it's the best way. I think that bike paths are better than the lanes. IMHO.

[Scarface]

They are repaving Killam drive it looks like it might be from The city Depot, ti'll the Industrial park but who know at this point.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Scarface

They are repaving Killam drive it looks like it might be from The city Depot, ti'll the Industrial park but who know at this point.

All the way to beyond Horsman Road. They're in a real hurry. Must have something to do with the election.

[theshark]

I was driving on the part that is the talk of the town today and when the bikes lane ended I was like now what? Where do the bikes go from here? Is there a path nearby or something they can get on or the lane vanishes and thats it?

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by theshark

I was driving on the part that is the talk of the town today and when the bikes lane ended I was like now what? Where do the bikes go from here? Is there a path nearby or something they can get on or the lane vanishes and thats it?

It does indeed look like the lane is done, and it becomes shared.

[habskilla]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Right, that's what we call going backwards. Not sure if you really understand that? Change is usually a good thing, not sure how an increase in traffic congestion and a reduction in safety for thousands is better just to maker it safer for maybe not even a dozen bikers each day. I guess I just don't see the logic in it. You'll have to explain that to me I guess.

The MAIN reason it was changed it to three lanes was to SLOW DOWN THE SPEEDERS. Speeding kills.

Bike lanes were only added because of the available space. There is not much bike traffic in that area.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by habskilla

The MAIN reason it was changed it to three lanes was to SLOW DOWN THE SPEEDERS. Speeding kills.

Bike lanes were only added because of the available space. There is not much bike traffic in that area.

Oh really? Maybe. That's not what the mayor said though. She said she didn't like the decision to get rid of the bike lanes because she wants to complete Moncton's plan to be bike friendly by the year 2025 or 2030 or something. I heard it on the radio. Anyways 3 lane roads aren't much safer. I use them to go to work every shift on Salisbury road. People passing in the middle lane all the time and then when they pass the car they want to get by the speeding continues.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Oh really? Maybe. That's not what the mayor said though. She said she didn't like the decision to get rid of the bike lanes because she wants to complete Moncton's plan to be bike friendly by the year 2025 or 2030 or something. I heard it on the radio. Anyways 3 lane roads aren't much safer. I use them to go to work every shift on Salisbury road. People passing in the middle lane all the time and then when they pass the car they want to get by the speeding continues.

Habskilla is correct. The reason for the "road diet", at least as far as the Department of Public Works is concerned, is just as much about speeding as it is about the bike lanes.

They feel that the AADT on that section of Mountain Road is not sufficient enough to justify a full four lane road, and by reducing the configuration to two lanes (plus centre turning lane), this will force motorists to slow down (it's not uncommon to see motorists on this portion of the road doing 80, and sometimes 90 km/hr.

The problem with the new configuration is that some motorists are using the centre turning lane as a passing lane, exponentially increasing the risk of a head on collision (at high velocity). This is what nearly happened to Councillor Butler, frightening him so much.

In response, Public Works has been tweaking the alignment somewhat, so that most of the section south and east of the 126 intersection is now centre dedicated turning lane, rather than a shared turning lane. This is better, drivers are more used to this sort of alignment and there is less ambiguity. I'm willing to give this alignment a probationary year to see how it all pans out.

As for the bike lanes, I still think they should sacrifice one of the sidewalks, turning that into the bike lane and getting the bikes off the road surface. I think this would be better and safer for everyone.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Habskilla is correct. The reason for the "road diet", at least as far as the Department of Public Works is concerned,.

Yeah well, City council makes the decision, not them. City council overruled it and then turned it back. They have the power to make the decision not PW telling CC what is going to happen. The powers that have changed it said for bike lanes not for traffic safety. PW has probably just said this to shut people up so they don't complain about losing road real estate to bikers. Anyways I've said my opinion, say what you want, I'm done with this.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Yeah well, City council makes the decision, not them. City council overruled it and then turned it back. They have the power to make the decision not PW telling CC what is going to happen. The powers that have changed it said for bike lanes not for traffic safety. PW has probably just said this to shut people up so they don't complain about losing road real estate to bikers.

Yes, city council should have the last say. There is however often a conflict at city hall between the public's elected representatives and the career civil servants. Sometimes it's pretty obvious that the civil servants and the managers think that they are the ones with the real power in this dynamic. I think this has contributed to the current fiascos over the Mountain Road lane alignment and the east end pool. In both cases, I believe that the civil servants presented the plans as a fait accompli to city council for a rubber stamp, leading to a lack of consideration for the political issues involved, and egg on the face for everyone.

I think city council should develop a more hands on managerial style and not be afraid to ask the civil servants questions about what the intent and ramifications of their proposals are or could be. Rather than rubber stamping the civil servants recommendations, they should be providing more public oversight. If they did so, there would be fewer embarrassing flip flops.

Final word on the Mountain Road traffic pattern - I honestly think it should go back to four lanes with an additional turning lane where appropriate. This is what we had before. However, given the fact the new lines are already painted, I'm willing to wait a year to see how it pans out. In the meantime, they should be watching traffic flow like a hawk to really see what the problems are. I will keep an open mind in the meantime. And, as I've said before, if bicycle safety is an issue, and if council really wants to be proactive and spend money on this issue, then create a bike trail off the road surface paralleling Mountain Road, sacrificing one of the sidewalks in the process........

[habskilla]

People using the centre lane to pass just reinforces how out of control that section of road is.