Elgin Street Renewal

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That is not a vain esthetic reason.

I agree, but the city seemed to think it was.

[J.OT13]

The City didn't come to its senses, Hydro Ottawa forced their hand. Keeping the hydro wires above ground was a ridiculous idea from the get-go. Elgin is probably the narrowest of our traditional main-streets. Space is at a premium. Burying the lines was absolutely the only logical conclusion.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If they are only burying the wires because they "have to", good: burying them solely for vain esthetic reasons is a dumb idea.

That will never be the case. Available space, cost, reliability, safety of both citizens and hydro workers, will always be part of the equation.

[lrt's friend]

I am pleased that they are burying hydro lines on Elgin Street. Overhead wires need to be eliminated on our retail streets. This is the 21st century. Time to improve the appearance of our city, and give more room to multi-use streets. It is about aesthetics but also more.

[grooveduster]

Is this actually happening?? Please tell me it is! Holy smokes. I can't stand the ratty hydro poles on any street in downtown Ottawa, but if one MUST have them, would it hurt to make them at least straight? It's such visual pollution. I'm looking at you Main St.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I am pleased that they are burying hydro lines on Elgin Street. Overhead wires need to be eliminated on our retail streets. This is the 21st century. Time to improve the appearance of our city, and give more room to multi-use streets. It is about aesthetics but also more.

Why do people keep thinking this is about aesthetics? The amount of space these poles take is ridiculous. And on such a busy corridor with limited sidewalk space, this is a real problem.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Why do people keep thinking this is about aesthetics? The amount of space these poles take is ridiculous. And on such a busy corridor with limited sidewalk space, this is a real problem.

It is a case of adding a weak argument to a strong argument weakens your overall argument. There are some locations where aesthetics are important (for example, where there are scenic views), but in most cases it is a weak argument.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Why do people keep thinking this is about aesthetics? The amount of space these poles take is ridiculous. And on such a busy corridor with limited sidewalk space, this is a real problem.

Agreed, especially on narrow streets where every inch of sidewalk space is needed. This certainly is the case on Elgin Street. It is a pity they didn't do likewise in the Glebe a few years ago.

But we also need to build an attractive city moving forward as well. It is time to move past the days when Ottawa was a lumber boom town when hydro poles were a dime a dozen. Modern cities do not have wooden hydro poles downtown.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Agreed, especially on narrow streets where every inch of sidewalk space is needed. This certainly is the case on Elgin Street. It is a pity they didn't do likewise in the Glebe a few years ago.

But we also need to build an attractive city moving forward as well. It is time to move past the days when Ottawa was a lumber boom town when hydro poles were a dime a dozen. Modern cities do not have wooden hydro poles downtown.

But Elgin doesn't have any hydro poles north of Lisgar, so that isn't an argument in this case (according to Wikipedia, Downtown Ottawa "is bordered by the Ottawa River to the north, the Rideau Canal to the east, Gloucester Street to the south and Bronson Avenue to the west."). Other parts of downtown might have power poles though, but that is a separate issue.

I'm curious what they will do with the power lines on the streets that cross Elgin. They could bury the section that crosses the street, but more likely, they will move the poles just off of Elgin and still have the wires run across the street.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Modern cities do not have wooden hydro poles downtown.

I suppose, but lots of modern Canadian cities still do on streets whose forms and functions are roughly equivalent to Elgin.

[acottawa]

It appears like it was city policy at some point to bury the lines. Many streets inside and outside the downtown core have had their lines buried. This is particularly obvious on Cummings where power lines appear at the former Ottawa-Gloucester border.

[waterloowarrior]

There was a big report several years back regarding burying hydro lines policy, costs etc
https://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cityco...%20-%20Underground%20Wiring%20Policy.htm

[HighwayStar]

Time to post my favourite picture again... Churchill Ave looking North to Scott St (Stop Sign)... Heart of Westboro... after all the street renovations about 5 years ago. They ADDED extra poles to the other side of the street to maximize the mish-mash. The Richmond Rd strip is not much better.

[Uhuniau]

I fail to see what's so offensive about overhead wires.

[Vixx]

Not really seeing whats so controversial here, I think this is fantastic news.

Elgin has been coming along nicely over the years and burying the lines will really help with the aesthetics and the "rough around the edges" feel in some parts.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I fail to see what's so offensive about overhead wires.

They aesthetically clutter streets and poles interfere with potential design usage of sidewalks/bike lanes/transit. Streets with no wires or poles look so much cleaner than those with.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Time to post my favourite picture again... Churchill Ave looking North to Scott St (Stop Sign)... Heart of Westboro... after all the street renovations about 5 years ago. They ADDED extra poles to the other side of the street to maximize the mish-mash. The Richmond Rd strip is not much better.

That's nothing. Have a look at these streets in Hachioji, Japan.


photo credit: Ikue Mio courtesy Sankei via EEP

[H>T&T>P]

Though I love the look and functionality of a street with buried lines the issue is the cost.

https://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cityco...%20-%20Underground%20Wiring%20Policy.htm

Street Segment Name
Estimated Total Cost ($)
Length of Street Section (km)
Estimated (Initial) Capital Cost, With Other Street Work, $/km

Elgin
$5,766,000
0.912
$6,322,000.

That equal $6322.00 per meter to bury the lines in 2011. I am sure it has gone up since then.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by JHikka

They aesthetically clutter streets and poles interfere with potential design usage of sidewalks/bike lanes/transit. Streets with no wires or poles look so much cleaner than those with.

They also have a massive impact on redevelopment potential. Every high voltage line requires a 5m setback; every pole, 2m. So in the case of Elgin, this means that the hydro setbacks are more restrictive than the zoning ones.

Not burying the overhead wires is throwing away massive amounts of potential development charges and property tax.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by H>T&T>P

Though I love the look and functionality of a street with buried lines the issue is the cost.

https://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cityco...%20-%20Underground%20Wiring%20Policy.htm

Street Segment Name
Estimated Total Cost ($)
Length of Street Section (km)
Estimated (Initial) Capital Cost, With Other Street Work, $/km

Elgin
$5,766,000
0.912
$6,322,000.

That equal $6322.00 per meter to bury the lines in 2011. I am sure it has gone up since then.

I believe those costs were not assuming any other work will be done on the street or the wiring. The street will be dug up to replace the water mains and all of the poles and wires likely need to be replaced as part of the street work anyway, so the actual cost will be lower, especially when you only consider the incremental cost.

According to this article, "An underground circuit typically costs anywhere from 1 to 2.5 times the equivalent overhead circuit." With the city already digging up the street, I suspect the costs will be on the lower end.