Canadian Airport Thread

[YOWflier]

Pretty hard to imagine a scenario where WS has a worse "image" than TS, or even AC for that matter.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Pretty hard to imagine a scenario where WS has a worse "image" than TS, or even AC for that matter.

It's more that it has no image... AC is well liked at YUL.

[YOWflier]

I don't think so. Poster clearly said "bad" image.

It's not that I really care per se I just find it curious.

[thenoflyzone]

WS had already reduced flights on YUL to YQB from 4x daily to 2x in the spring. This was inevitable. 90% of the traffic on the route is connecting, and WS has little to offer in that department out of YUL.

On another note, YUL posted their July numbers. First time ever they pass 2 million in one month.

2,038,149 +6.6%

Domestic 736,055 +4.8%

International 888,821 +9%

Transborder 413,273 +4.8%

YTD 11,193,703 +6.9%

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/files/2018/ADM_Statsdet_2018_EN.pdf

[begratto]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Pretty hard to imagine a scenario where WS has a worse "image" than TS, or even AC for that matter.

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I don't think so. Poster clearly said "bad" image.

It's not that I really care per se I just find it curious.

Well, Westjet says they have bilingual flight attendants and personnel, but until a few years ago it was hard to get service in French on their flights - and people are sensitive to this in Quebec.

I remember a Montreal <> Guadeloupe flight (2 French-speaking places) where close to 100% of passengers were French speakers, but none of the on-board personnel could speak French. Let's just say that this particular flight didn't help in improving their corporate image. Or on other flights, we'd get the "yes, I do speak French, but would you mind if I switched to English, it'll just be easier". Euhhh... no, how about you practice a bit so you can get better?

Air Canada does much better (even though there are some hiccups) on the bilingual services front. I just came back from India and 80% of the flight attendants were bilingual on the Mumbai-Toronto flight, for example. And they switch to French with a smile - makes all the difference. It's something we appreciate when we travel with our still unilingual, French-speaking kids (yes, they'll learn English at school, just like I did).

Westjet did hire lots of bilingual agents in recent years (and assigned them to Montreal flights), but their corporate image suffered in Quebec and it will take some time to recover I guess.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Pretty hard to imagine a scenario where WS has a worse "image" than TS, or even AC for that matter.

I was talking about it’s image in Quebec.

Transat has a pretty good image in the province, AC’s is not bad either.

[esquire]

^ Why does WestJet have a poor image in Quebec?

I find around here people have an fairly (and often unrealistically) high opinion of WestJet. Some people still view them as the spunky upstart which in my view they ceased being sometime around 1999.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I don't think so. Poster clearly said "bad" image.

It's not that I really care per se I just find it curious.

WestJet has a bad image among frequent flyer and high value flyer set.

Among this set AC has a much better image, hence the higher revenue yield, which has AC enjoying a 30% premium over WestJet.

Frequently flying AC or Star Alliance enough to get status and the experience on AC gets much better. Frequency is about 40+ segments per year will give a pax mid level(Gold) status on AC. This gets you access to the following:
- Dedicated phone lines.
- priority checkin.
- Additional free checked bag allowance.
- Priority standby.
- Lounge access.
- Priority boarding.
- upgrade to Premium Economy, Business Class, or Signature Suites. .
discounted or free comfort seating.
- Reciprocal benefits throughout the Star Alliance network.

Equivalent on WestJet:
- Dedicated phone lines.
- Additional free checked bag allowance.
- Lounge certificates at 4 per year (not much considering pax is traveling weekly).
- Priority boarding, but well after family boarding.
- Beg the checkin or gate agent for free upgrades, hope that general pax don't pay $50 to upgrade ahead of you.
- No upgrade to WestJet Plus. As of today no word on if a Gold could upgrade to WS Premium.
- Reciprocal benefits through partners (DL, AF/KL, etc.).

The kicker for me is that WS favours their general pax over the status holding flyer. You might get out on standby on IRROP delayed station, or the gate agent takes pity on the family flying once in 15 years.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Why does WestJet have a poor image in Quebec?

I find around here people have an fairly (and often unrealistically) high opinion of WestJet. Some people still view them as the spunky upstart which in my view they ceased being sometime around 1999.

The opinion of them is high here as well. At least once a month there's a Facebook rant from one of my friends about a horrible Air Canada experience, and all of the comments echo the same sentiments except for one single friend who is all about Air Canada (but is the type who takes pride in never seeing Game of Thrones, etc. He's in his early 60s and very old-fashioned - and travels a lot so probably has that AC Gold or whatever it is).

I've had so many negative experiences with Air Canada. Too many to mention. It's mostly just the stuck-up, pompous attitude of everyone involved. Even when the flight attendants are here overnight and downtown, you can always tell which are from Air Canada - they're not smiling, sitting alone. It's like we can just sense they're not good people, whereas the Westjet crew is back at their rooms shagging locals.

After my flight was delayed in Toronto, I was asked by an Air Canada gate agent if Halifax was close enough, could someone pick me up. I've even seen a couple of "That's not my job, I don't know." responses to questions from the seemingly days-long line-ups waiting to rebook. I mean, in what world is that a thing people say out loud?

There aren't many companies I passionately hate and wish to see fail - Air Canada is one of them. The only one that compares is probably Hydro Quebec. They are and represent the very worst of Canada. I'd rather take RyanAir or British Airways from St. John's to Toronto any day.

Westjet on the other hand is great. The only really significant delay I had with them was flying home for Christmas when I lived on the mainland. We waited at the gate because a flight coming in from BC had Newfoundlanders on it who would not be able to get home in time for Christmas Eve if we left without them.

Air Canada wouldn't have done that. And if they did, they certainly wouldn't have TOLD PEOPLE WHAT THE FUCK WAS GOING ON. They would have just left us sitting on the plane, staring at us with their blank sour faces.

[p_xavier]

WTF is that rant?! Did a AC pilot rape your sister or something?

[SignalHillHiker]

No, just as I said - just constant... unjustified pompousness, snobbery, etc. They act like the salespeople in that scene from Pretty Woman where they won't sell her the dress. I just have a very low tolerance for that sort of fake, keeping-up-with-the-Joneses shit.

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Agree 100%

Back in the old days of EPA (Eastern Provincial Airways), they had milk run routes (sort of the antithesis of hub and spoke). They would have routes like Sydney -> Charlottetown -> Moncton -> Fredericton. It meant a lot of taking off and landing, but at least you kept your seat, knew that your checked bag was accompanying you, and didn't waste hours in a boring hub airport waiting for connections.

In the early days of WestJet service out of Moncton, they had one stop service to the west via Hamilton. I clearly remember boarding a 737 in Moncton, making a short station stop in Hamilton and then continuing on (in the same equipment, in the same seat) to my terminal destination in Edmonton. It was great!!!

Now to do the same, I have to take an Encore Q400 to Pearson and make connections to 737 service to Edmonton (all the while wondering exactly which foreign airport my checked baggage is heading).

Porter brought the milk run back. Stephenville > Halifax > Ottawa > Toronto. I went all the way to Toronto earlier this summer and it was great. 3 free beer, 1 each leg of the flight. By the time we landed at YTZ I was already half cut. Streetcar to the hotel. On the way back I did the same thing and just walked 10 minutes from the Stephenville terminal to my house. So convenient.

With Westjet dropping Deer Lake this fall there's been a little push to have Porter increase their frequency to a daily flight from Stephenville to Halifax. Otherwise it'll only be AC during the winter and that'll be damn expensive if there's no competition.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

No, just as I said - just constant... unjustified pompousness, snobbery, etc. They act like the salespeople in that scene from Pretty Woman where they won't sell her the dress. I just have a very low tolerance for that sort of fake, keeping-up-with-the-Joneses shit.

I’ve done several flights this summer that’s given me the opportunity for a quick anecdotal comparison between Westjet and Air Canada front-line staff: 3 flights on Westjet and 2 on Air Canada.

Don’t get me wrong…..all delivered good service and all announcements pertaining to safety were delivered professionally….. but it was constant (and not just on one of the WS flights..... and even at the Gates).....the ‘Corny’…. trying to be funny comments/jokes by the WS employees. And I wasn’t the only one noticing this from the looks going across the aisle! Air Canada just delivered a more professional, consistent service.

In all my years of flying the only real customer service issue (or lack of) I ever had was on WestJet. Now they are just another airline. That ‘niche’ airline status they once enjoyed is long gone!

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by Trevor3

Porter brought the milk run back. Stephenville > Halifax > Ottawa > Toronto. I went all the way to Toronto earlier this summer and it was great. 3 free beer, 1 each leg of the flight. .....

Here’s a milk-run serving Stephenville back in the ‘60s on an Air Canada (Trans-Canada Air Lines then) big, four-engine turbo-prop Vanguard.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Trans-Canada-Air-Lines-TCA/Vickers-952-Vanguard/2064980

Flight 700 departed Toronto at 1145p…..stopping at Montreal, Saint John, Moncton, Halifax, Sydney, Stephenville, Gander and into St. John’s at 1020a

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/ac/tc62d/tc62d-10.jpg

Notice how the CN rail schedule also appeared in the TCA timetable. Guess if there were flight delays....you knew your options!

Return flight was 701:

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/ac/tc62d/tc62d-08.jpg

[esquire]

^ Considering the first two major airlines (TCA and CP) basically started out as arms of CN and CP Rail, I suppose it makes sense that they would have taken their cue from how passenger railways operate.

Thanks for posting those timetables... that's interesting stuff.

[Treplow]

Originally Posted by Cage

WestJet has a bad image among frequent flyer and high value flyer set.

Among this set AC has a much better image, hence the higher revenue yield, which has AC enjoying a 30% premium over WestJet.

Frequently flying AC or Star Alliance enough to get status and the experience on AC gets much better. Frequency is about 40+ segments per year will give a pax mid level(Gold) status on AC. This gets you access to the following:
- Dedicated phone lines.
- priority checkin.
- Additional free checked bag allowance.
- Priority standby.
- Lounge access.
- Priority boarding.
- upgrade to Premium Economy, Business Class, or Signature Suites. .
discounted or free comfort seating.
- Reciprocal benefits throughout the Star Alliance network.

Equivalent on WestJet:
- Dedicated phone lines.
- Additional free checked bag allowance.
- Lounge certificates at 4 per year (not much considering pax is traveling weekly).
- Priority boarding, but well after family boarding.
- Beg the checkin or gate agent for free upgrades, hope that general pax don't pay $50 to upgrade ahead of you.
- No upgrade to WestJet Plus. As of today no word on if a Gold could upgrade to WS Premium.
- Reciprocal benefits through partners (DL, AF/KL, etc.).

The kicker for me is that WS favours their general pax over the status holding flyer. You might get out on standby on IRROP delayed station, or the gate agent takes pity on the family flying once in 15 years.

I've never understood why priority boarding is such a big deal...it's not like you get to take off earlier and reach your destination faster than people who board 10 minutes before the flight takes off.

[p_xavier]

You can get an additionnal 10 minutes in your seat to enjoy a drink than being in a long queue. Sure, if you travel once or twice a year it doesn't really matter but for a frequent flyer, it's worth it.

[esquire]

Priority boarding is a bigger deal in smaller aircraft where there may not be room in the overhead for your carry-on. But if it's a widebody (especially 787), I'm fine with being the last guy on the plane. I think I've gotten good at leaving the lounge at the last possible moment.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by esquire

Thanks for posting those timetables... that's interesting stuff.

If you are into old timetables…check this out:

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/complete.htm

And a rare Trans-Canada Air Lines timetable from 1940

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tc40/tc40-1.jpg

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tc40/tc40-2.jpg

[esquire]

^ Thanks! That's quite the trove of vintage timetables... I love that stuff.