HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure


View Poll Results: Based on options for Broadway Corridor Study, what is your preferred choice?
BRT: Commercial to UBC 25 6.16%
LRT A: Commercial to UBC OR Commercial via VCC to UBC 31 7.64%
LRT B: Main St. to UBC AND Commercial to UBC 18 4.43%
RRT: Commercial to UBC OR VCC to UBC 283 69.70%
COMBO: RRT to Arbutus/LRT to Main St via Arbutus 39 9.61%
BUS: Enhanced Bus Service for all buses to UBC 10 2.46%
Voters: 406. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #9221  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2018, 11:09 PM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebrand View Post
Granville and Burrard stations have stacked platforms because they were retrofitted in an existing tunnel, which was originally used for double-decked freights. I can understand that excuse, but the Canada Line was cheaped out. (Let’s just follow waves’ word and move on.)

Double-boring would put an extra strain on TransLink’s budget, which needs to be used on other projects, including Surrey’s glory tram . But it won’t be as dreaded as boring through Burnaby Mountain, or if the contractor is The Boring Company.
i'm not sure there were double height freight cars in the 30's when the CPR originally built the tunnel to connect the CPR Harbour-front yard and the Waterfront passenger station with the False Creek yards. the Dunsmuir tunnel made it easier to move freight trains across downtown between the yards without disrupting traffic, and also to deadhead move the CPR 'The Dominion' - later 'The Canadian' (after upgrading the passenger fleet in the 50's to the post-war stainless-steel cars and modern diesel engines) passenger trains that terminated in Vancouver to the yaletown area for cleaning, restocking and other prep, while a different fresh train was sent to waterfront station to pick up the eastbbound transcontinental passengers. this was an era of daily transcontinental trains from Vancouver to Toronto/ Montreal (and all points in-between) being run by CP from waterfront, CN and Great Northern (to L.A.) from their main st stations, which peaked in the 60's when transcontinental passenger jets and highways entered service

the false creek yard was quite active in maintaining CP's trains and engines since it was the Western terminus, so it had its own round-house (now the community centre)

Last edited by jsbertram; Aug 21, 2018 at 10:21 PM.
     
     
  #9222  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 12:04 AM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
According to the FAQ on the official site:
- Smaller tunnels
- Faster/automated/more powerful electric TBMs
- Converting excavation dirt into bricks into tunnel supports
Thanks for the info. I'm still skeptical - none of those sounds like a huge game changer. Especially smaller tunnels, which only works for specialized cases.
     
     
  #9223  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 12:54 AM
Firebrand's Avatar
Firebrand Firebrand is offline
D-Class Suburbanite
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
I get Tesla's innovation - reduce battery costs to make electric cars feasible. And SpaceX is reducing launch costs through reusability and more assembly-line like rocket manufacturing. But what technology is the Boring Company using that's supposed to revolutionize the tunneling industry?
Both of which have been bleeding money for the past few months, especially from Musk's incident with the submarine thing in Thailand. The Boring Company is mainly created for Musk to build underground vehicular pods that will go from his house to his work. He has a strong distaste for public transportation.
     
     
  #9224  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 1:31 AM
Migrant_Coconut's Avatar
Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kitsilano/Fairview
Posts: 10,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
Thanks for the info. I'm still skeptical - none of those sounds like a huge game changer. Especially smaller tunnels, which only works for specialized cases.
And SkyTrain tunnels are already pretty small for a metro's as it is. The next-gen TBMs might lower the price tag, but only if they either becomes cheap to build or lower costs of conventional machines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebrand View Post
Both of which have been bleeding money for the past few months, especially from Musk's incident with the submarine thing in Thailand. The Boring Company is mainly created for Musk to build underground vehicular pods that will go from his house to his work. He has a strong distaste for public transportation.

Relevant.
This too.
     
     
  #9225  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 2:39 AM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
And SkyTrain tunnels are already pretty small for a metro's as it is. The next-gen TBMs might lower the price tag, but only if they either becomes cheap to build or lower costs of conventional machines.



Relevant.
This too.
i think that was a selling point of the original expo line - the skytrain could be built using most of the original dunsmuir tunnel (no longer needed by CPRail in the 80's), but because the skytrain trackways were to be stacked, the tunnel floor had to be lowered a few feet by under-pinning the sides

showing the floor of upper trackbed is also the roof of the lower track:


the lowered tunnel floor:


tunnel before underpinning for skytrain:


more pics at vancouver archives

Last edited by jsbertram; Aug 23, 2018 at 2:03 AM.
     
     
  #9226  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 2:45 AM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,245
demolishing the abandoned eastern portion of the tunnel when building the cosmo condos near bc place

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN7ov5IERjg

Last edited by jsbertram; Aug 21, 2018 at 2:58 AM.
     
     
  #9227  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 2:51 AM
Alex Mackinnon's Avatar
Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
Can I has a tunnel?
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post

Also we rent the machine(s) and then they're taken apart and shipped to their next project, so we can't just leave them in the ground until we're ready to start Phase 2.
This is wrong. A TBM for this project would be under $50M today, generally you buy them outright then sell them for near scrap value.

The risk of breakdown due to a used TBM is worth way more than the cost differential between used and new equipment.

The only real reason people usually buy a used TBM is because they need it ready fast, and custom build machines take over a year. They still however have to pay for a full refurbishment before use, which is generally marginally cheaper than buying a TBM outright.
     
     
  #9228  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 3:08 AM
Alex Mackinnon's Avatar
Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
Can I has a tunnel?
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Handy reference - bottom line, single bore is cheaper and less disruptive, but much harder to build a station around. So they like to stick with double bore unless there's engineering issues (e.g. Burnaby Mountain).
This way oversimplifies a complex problem.

The BART uses long and wide trains, their system also has drivers on every train which limits maximum frequency. In short, all infrastructure is used with a very low intensity. The diagram used also shows a double stack station which is probably more expensive.

The Skytrain uses a tiny train with high frequency to get the same capacity out of smaller infrastructure, In general a side by side layout (as in Evergreen) is doable because the trains are small. You can fit 2 skytrains side by side in a much smaller tunnel than BART or most other systems. This is the primary selling point for LIM trains in most places.

The only bad thing about the side by side layout is that you can't implement a Spanish Solution style platform at a later date. The stations also need 2 complete sets of elevators and stairs, but the box layout is pretty simple. The BART example needs a multi level station, escape stairways, and a structural deck between train levels. The Evergreen/Side-by-Side layout just needs a firewall and doors for fire escapes to be built inside the tunnel.

Larger tunnels are actually much more flexible in terms of geological conditions that they can work in. You can fit more equipment as well as larger equipment in the TBM. That in general is a big win.

The general opinion I've heard of the Evergreen Tunnel's issues was that the maintenance on the TBM was assumed to be much easier than it was in actuality. Optimism wins jobs, but pessimism should drive contingency planning.
     
     
  #9229  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 5:01 PM
Migrant_Coconut's Avatar
Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kitsilano/Fairview
Posts: 10,182
Thanks Alex. Mind if I copy-paste and save that? Whole lot of great information there.
     
     
  #9230  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 3:28 AM
Bdawe Bdawe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The West End
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon View Post
This way oversimplifies a complex problem.

The BART uses long and wide trains, their system also has drivers on every train which limits maximum frequency. In short, all infrastructure is used with a very low intensity. The diagram used also shows a double stack station which is probably more expensive.

BART may be limited by driver costs off peak, but at least at peak they're limited by the the fact that BART is four lines converging into one through the Transbay Tube, and the existing combination of signalling, grades, and braking cannot operate more than 24 trains per hour, so branch frequencies can't be higher than 15 minutes (except on line which sees 7.5 minute frequencies)
     
     
  #9231  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2018, 3:56 AM
Alex Mackinnon's Avatar
Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
Can I has a tunnel?
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawe View Post
BART may be limited by driver costs off peak, but at least at peak they're limited by the the fact that BART is four lines converging into one through the Transbay Tube, and the existing combination of signalling, grades, and braking cannot operate more than 24 trains per hour, so branch frequencies can't be higher than 15 minutes (except on line which sees 7.5 minute frequencies)
Unless they run trains which run branch to branch. This train is running from San Jose all the way up and around to SFO which is pretty long for a single line.

They could also short run trains to SJ to increase the frequency, since I'd imagine San Jose is a destination of it's own right for most of the East Bay. Nodal city and all...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Thanks Alex. Mind if I copy-paste and save that? Whole lot of great information there.
Go for it. If you don't attribute me, that would be preferred.
     
     
  #9232  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 10:37 AM
Tvisforme's Avatar
Tvisforme Tvisforme is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Metro Vancouver
Posts: 2,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbertram View Post
extend past YVR? next stop Parksville?
As nice as this would be, the line would hit Gabriola first and then Nanaimo. However, it would be a great end destination. Just give me a bit of time to buy some land there first, please...
     
     
  #9233  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 11:29 AM
cganuelas1995 cganuelas1995 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvisforme View Post
As nice as this would be, the line would hit Gabriola first and then Nanaimo. However, it would be a great end destination. Just give me a bit of time to buy some land there first, please...
Then finally terminating at Tofino in, I'm gonna predict, 2218?
     
     
  #9234  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 5:11 PM
Firebrand's Avatar
Firebrand Firebrand is offline
D-Class Suburbanite
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by cganuelas1995 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvisforme View Post
As nice as this would be, the line would hit Gabriola first and then Nanaimo. However, it would be a great end destination. Just give me a bit of time to buy some land there first, please...
Then finally terminating at Tofino in, I'm gonna predict, 2218?
Assuming if The Big One doesn’t destroy the SkyTrain network.
     
     
  #9235  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 10:44 PM
svlt svlt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by cganuelas1995 View Post
Then finally terminating at Tofino in, I'm gonna predict, 2218?
Thought I had accidentally stumbled upon one of Fredinno's master plan threads again.
     
     
  #9236  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 11:08 PM
cganuelas1995 cganuelas1995 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by svlt View Post
Thought I had accidentally stumbled upon one of Fredinno's master plan threads again.
Actually, — it, let's extend the millennium line west beyond UBC and east beyond Port Coquitlam and just have it circumnavigate the world.
     
     
  #9237  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 11:28 PM
Firebrand's Avatar
Firebrand Firebrand is offline
D-Class Suburbanite
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by cganuelas1995 View Post
Actually, — it, let's extend the millennium line west beyond UBC and east beyond Port Coquitlam and just have it circumnavigate the world.


Or better yet, put some rocket boosters on it and let it shoot up beyond the mesosphere, like a space elevator.
     
     
  #9238  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 11:38 PM
cganuelas1995 cganuelas1995 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebrand View Post


Or better yet, put some rocket boosters on it and let it shoot up beyond the mesosphere, like a space elevator.
#PlaceElonMuskOnTheTransLinkBoardOfDirectors
     
     
  #9239  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2018, 2:15 AM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by cganuelas1995 View Post
Actually, — it, let's extend the millennium line west beyond UBC and east beyond Port Coquitlam and just have it circumnavigate the world.
we're gonna need something to spend all the upcoming LNG revenue on
     
     
  #9240  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2018, 2:49 AM
Alex Mackinnon's Avatar
Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
Can I has a tunnel?
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by cganuelas1995 View Post
Actually, — it, let's extend the millennium line west beyond UBC and east beyond Port Coquitlam and just have it circumnavigate the world.
If Civliization is a good simulation, it's likely that our trains would get +1 movement points per turn; thereby turning Skytrain into high speed rail.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:20 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.