Amazon HQ2 bid

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by MARTAisSmarta

Same source that says it's Atlanta?

Yes and almost as close as you can get to the source. With that said, the announcement September 10th may be a shortened list or the final pick.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Announcement is the week of September 10th - my source.

Fingers crossed!

[Mentallect]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Fingers crossed!

Most people will not be pleased with HQ2 when it arrives no more so than Seattle residents. Recent surveys show Amazon is detrimental to Seattle. Property taxes, housing costs, increased commute times, increased homelessness, overcrowded schools.

I believe we should embrace HQ2 so long as taxpayer money is not subsidizing them. I categorize cities paying for NFL football stadiums the same way. The ROI is nonexistent. Amazon gets a built in advantage over over tech companies who aren't subsidized by taxpayers. Start-ups can get subsidies periodically especially new tech. Mature companies getting welfare is just public theft.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Mentallect

Most people will not be pleased with HQ2 when it arrives no more so than Seattle residents. Recent surveys show Amazon is detrimental to Seattle. Property taxes, housing costs, increased commute times, increased homelessness, overcrowded schools.

I believe we should embrace HQ2 so long as taxpayer money is not subsidizing them. I categorize cities paying for NFL football stadiums the same way. The ROI is nonexistent. Amazon gets a built in advantage over over tech companies who aren't subsidized by taxpayers. Start-ups can get subsidies periodically especially new tech. Mature companies getting welfare is just public theft.

Actually data suggests HQ2 could significantly help the CoA, Metro and the State. How? Significantly raising our median income/tax base.

Seattle Median Income: $83,476
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/seattle-wa/

Atlanta Median Income: $49,398
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/atlantacitygeorgia/INC110216

[Mentallect]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Actually data suggests HQ2 could significantly help the CoA, Metro and the State. How? Significantly raising our median income/tax base.

Seattle Median Income: $83,476
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/seattle-wa/

Atlanta Median Income: $49,398
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/atlantacitygeorgia/INC110216

Yes, smart growth can revitalize areas. However, every valid economic study conducted indicate incentives not tied directly to physical projects are merely giveaways. 95% of welfare incentives to corporations fit this category. NOVA has median household income over $100K. Population density is high. Amazon won't benefit the region like perhaps it would in ATL, especially if West and Southwest ATL benefit from secondary inflows of capital investments like new homes, restaurants, commercial real estate rentals, etc. But a downside to lower income areas is most residents won't be able to afford to newer housing developers build due to Amazon. I believe any area Amazon enters receives a blessing. However, there is also great pain. I am also against giving away taxpayer dollars to corporations. If conditions were set correctly in a region, incentives are not necessary to draw businesses.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Mentallect

Yes, smart growth can revitalize areas. However, every valid economic study conducted indicate incentives not tied directly to physical projects are merely giveaways. 95% of welfare incentives to corporations fit this category. NOVA has median household income over $100K. Population density is high. Amazon won't benefit the region like perhaps it would in ATL, especially if West and Southwest ATL benefit from secondary inflows of capital investments like new homes, restaurants, commercial real estate rentals, etc. But a downside to lower income areas is most residents won't be able to afford to newer housing developers build due to Amazon. I believe any area Amazon enters receives a blessing. However, there is also great pain. I am also against giving away taxpayer dollars to corporations. If conditions were set correctly in a region, incentives are not necessary to draw businesses.

Understand the majority of corporate incentives doesn't mean a company is handed money by the city or state. It usually means said company gets tax credits they can use against taxes they would have had to pay the city or state. Net, net - we are not giving away taxpayer dollars to a corporation. What is happening, the corporation is just not paying any taxes to the city/state for (x) incentive period. Make sense?

[skyscraperpage17]

I'll take growing pains any day over shrinking pains or stagnation. And for all of the imperfections that come with growth, I'm quite sure Seattle wouldn't want to trade places with Detroit.

[DNR]

Do you think these other executives have a feeling (or know something we don’t) about the chances of Atlanta being selected...

“We now have 20 good prospects, each of them going to bring an average of 850 new jobs to our state,” Deal told a room packed with Atlanta business leaders. That’s up from an average of two or three similar-sized business prospects per year, he said. The next day, Riley said that number had grown to 21 with another interested prospect.
- ABC Article

Just thought the uptick in interest may be a subtle signal - I could just be paranoid.

[Mentallect]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Understand the majority of corporate incentives doesn't mean a company is handed money by the city or state. It usually means said company gets tax credits they can use against taxes they would have had to pay the city or state. Net, net - we are not giving away taxpayer dollars to a corporation. What is happening, the corporation is just not paying any taxes to the city/state for (x) incentive period. Make sense?

Actually, any revenue not paid is lost revenue. If my property taxes are lower, my city has less income to fund local schools, firemen, police, infrastructure improvements etc. Cost/benefit analysis must show overwhelmingly any tax reductions to AMZN generate at least 1.5x more in new revenue. If Amazon wants to be a net contributor to NOVA, by all means, welcome. If a Wall Street theft mentality follows it, other locations are better suited to host HQ2. This region is growing in leaps and bounds without giving private companies my money or causing me to pay more taxes because they are exempt. The world's richest man should not have his hands out. In fact, maybe Amazon should pay regions to tolerate their presence.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by DNR

Do you think these other executives have a feeling (or know something we don’t) about the chances of Atlanta being selected...

“We now have 20 good prospects, each of them going to bring an average of 850 new jobs to our state,” Deal told a room packed with Atlanta business leaders. That’s up from an average of two or three similar-sized business prospects per year, he said. The next day, Riley said that number had grown to 21 with another interested prospect.
- ABC Article

Just thought the uptick in interest may be a subtle signal - I could just be paranoid.

I suspect the current political environment has more to do with it (in terms of confidence to make such costly moves/investments), if anything.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by DNR

“We now have 20 good prospects, each of them going to bring an average of 850 new jobs to our state,” Deal told a room packed with Atlanta business leaders.

With Amazon's 50,000 jobs, if each of the other 19 prospects had 1 job each, that would still average 2500 jobs over 20 prospects. I'm guessing that '20' prospect figure does not include Amazon.

[Libertarian]

According to the European Union Amazon is considered a private monopoly. It has become that by using its position to unduly influence the FTC, Congress, and gain postal rate subsidies; put in place cost-saving human resource policies that lead to excessive employee turnover; used super aggressive tactics to negotiate local tax abatement and free money schemes, etc. They are an anti free market monster and should be busted.

[DNR]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

I suspect the current political environment has more to do with it (in terms of confidence to make such costly moves/investments), if anything.

Could be.

I just didn't know how many of these 20+ companies could possibly be Tech companies that may have a link to Amazon or would benefit from close proximity to Amazon.
I was thinking that a company may just want to "get the ball rolling" and secure a deal before things get too crazy once (if) Amazon makes a choice to settle in Atlanta.

I was thinking more along the lines of when an auto plant puts down roots in a town, suppliers sprout up all around it. Are there companies that would follow Amazon and are some of these companies trying to get a jump-start before prices go up and deal-making becomes more difficult?

[wonshirim]

Just out of curiosity: what happens if our city council approves the $900M for $3B, $1.75B for $5B Gulch redevelopment tax incentive and Amazon goes elsewhere? Will CIM Group be able to keep the incentive package or will these benefits be conditional? The proposed tax breaks are unbelievably generous and I can't see Georgia or Atlanta politicians greenlighting this project without Amazon. Of course CIM Group will back out, but if they execute their proposal nonetheless, it'll absolutely destroy Atlanta's commercial RE market by oversupply. Are these tax packages conditional? As far as I know, the word "Amazon" isn't attached to these proposals so how will they work if Amazon backs off?

Of course I'm quite convinced the Gulch is where HQ2 will be but I'm just curious.

[MARTAisSmarta]

Originally Posted by wonshirim

Just out of curiosity: what happens if our city council approves the $900M for $3B, $1.75B for $5B Gulch redevelopment tax incentive and Amazon goes elsewhere? Will CIM Group be able to keep the incentive package or will these benefits be conditional? The proposed tax breaks are unbelievably generous and I can't see Georgia or Atlanta politicians greenlighting this project without Amazon. Of course CIM Group will back out, but if they execute their proposal nonetheless, it'll absolutely destroy Atlanta's commercial RE market by oversupply. Are these tax packages conditional? As far as I know, the word "Amazon" isn't attached to these proposals so how will they work if Amazon backs off?

Of course I'm quite convinced the Gulch is where HQ2 will be but I'm just curious.

Isn't the point of the tax abatement to allow for cheaper development costs which leads to lower rent which leads to more interest from tenants? I haven't read the details of this, but it would seem like CIM group would take on the risk for the development and any incentives would be based on actual spending. It is common to financial records for this purpose such as sales tax during construction or future property taxes.

[Mentallect]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

According to the European Union Amazon is considered a private monopoly. It has become that by using its position to unduly influence the FTC, Congress, and gain postal rate subsidies; put in place cost-saving human resource policies that lead to excessive employee turnover; used super aggressive tactics to negotiate local tax abatement and free money schemes, etc. They are an anti free market monster and should be busted.

I believe in fair competition. If a rival company has to pay more taxes than Amazon, that grants a competitive advantage. Amazon can pay workers more, or lower product cost to increase sales, use additional resources for capital improvements or more advertising. Private sector companies paying lobbyists millions a year should not get millions in tax incentive welfare. Time to level the playing field, and let the best company win. I hope Amazon comes to NOVA, but I will not give a trillion dollar company money to do it.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by montydawg

With Amazon's 50,000 jobs, if each of the other 19 prospects had 1 job each, that would still average 2500 jobs over 20 prospects. I'm guessing that '20' prospect figure does not include Amazon.

I am totally not following your math MD. This is what was stated publicly:

By Amy Wenk and Maria Saporta – Atlanta Business Chronicle
Aug 20, 2018, 2:58pm EDT

Georgia now has significantly more economic development prospects eyeing the state than it has in past years, Gov. Nathan Deal told the Rotary Club of Atlanta on Monday.

"We now have 20 good prospects, each of them going to bring an average of 850 new jobs to our state,” Deal told a room packed with Atlanta business leaders.

That’s up from an average of two or three similar-sized business prospects per year, he said.

850 x 20 = 17,000 jobs

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by wonshirim

Just out of curiosity: what happens if our city council approves the $900M for $3B, $1.75B for $5B Gulch redevelopment tax incentive and Amazon goes elsewhere? Will CIM Group be able to keep the incentive package or will these benefits be conditional? The proposed tax breaks are unbelievably generous and I can't see Georgia or Atlanta politicians greenlighting this project without Amazon. Of course CIM Group will back out, but if they execute their proposal nonetheless, it'll absolutely destroy Atlanta's commercial RE market by oversupply. Are these tax packages conditional? As far as I know, the word "Amazon" isn't attached to these proposals so how will they work if Amazon backs off?

Of course I'm quite convinced the Gulch is where HQ2 will be but I'm just curious.

Just to be clear, the $900 M - $1.75 Billion incentives, are just from the CoA. The State of GA will offer considerably more. From what I have read, both the City of Newark and Montgomery County, MD both afford $1 Billion in incentives. So Atlanta is in it - to win it @ $1.75 Billion.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by DNR

Could be.

I just didn't know how many of these 20+ companies could possibly be Tech companies that may have a link to Amazon or would benefit from close proximity to Amazon.
I was thinking that a company may just want to "get the ball rolling" and secure a deal before things get too crazy once (if) Amazon makes a choice to settle in Atlanta.

I was thinking more along the lines of when an auto plant puts down roots in a town, suppliers sprout up all around it. Are there companies that would follow Amazon and are some of these companies trying to get a jump-start before prices go up and deal-making becomes more difficult?

Tech companies congregate to hubs so they can create and feed off this Nerd Heard ecosystem. There statistically has to be some correlation between the Amazon HQ2 search and the 20 prospects looking at GA presently. Governor Deal said in prior years there were on average 2 -3 significant economic development project a year and now there is 21.

[Mentallect]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Tech companies congregate to hubs so there can create and feed off this Nerd Heard ecosystem. There statistically has to be some correlation between the Amazon HQ2 search and the 20 prospects looking at GA presently. Governor Deal said in prior years there were on average 2 -3 significant economic development project a year and now there is 21.

Aside from HQ2, some Tech companies eye locations doing well because HQ2 did advanced analysis of locations for them, and a few companies are propositioning themselves in case Amazon arrives. Other companies see the areas potential. ATL is a city of tomorrow. Amazon' decision to come or not come is not the biggest driver of tech companies relocating to ATL.