ATLANTA | Development Thread VI - Page 474

Atlanta3000 · #**9461** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 4:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verge

Correction-- that is money generated by the tax in a 30 year period-- not money spent every year. I suspect in about 10 years we'll see a $200+M renovations, etc. A lot of money for sure-- but the initial outlay was not a terrible deal.

I agree the initial outlay was not a terrible deal. With that said, I consider myself a fairly informed citizen and I don't ever remember reading about this additional $700 Million over 20/30 yrs. With the soccer attendance through the roof, it looks like Mr Blank is going to make some serious bank and the CoA is giving away hotel tax revenue equal to 60% of the overall project cost and that is bullshit.

skyscraperpage17 · #**9462** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 4:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

To be clear, the CoA citizens are not paying $900 Million in taxes toward the project. The money is coming from hotel taxes. That is not to say it is not bullshit because the CoA could have used this revenue to fund other projects.

Right, I got that (which is why I just said "taxpayers").

Atlanta3000 · #**9463** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 5:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Right, I got that (which is why I just said "taxpayers").

Not trying to be an @$$hole, but it makes more sense to say "hotel taxes" not "taxpayers" are contributing $900 Million to the project. The "taxpayers" and the CoA are losing out on $900 Million in REVENUE from hotel taxes used to fund the project and it's long term maintenance.

Make sense?

Street Advocate · #**9464** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 6:30 PM**

Lots of new heavy equipment at the Mark the last day or two. Looks like this is progressing along well.

Atlriser · #**9465** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 6:31 PM**

The city agreed to $200 million in hotel tax. Upkeep and maintenance are done by the GWCC Authority. That’s a state agency not the city. Where is this $700M coming? It’s simply not true.

The city also has added the cost of the bridge but that was done by the city and was STUPID! They made that decision on their own to fund and build that waste of money.

I’m sure the city spent millions more for streets and infrastructure as well but that would be needed whether it was an office tower, residential tower or just a park.

skyscraperpage17 · #**9466** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 6:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Not trying to be an @$$hole, but it makes more sense to say "hotel taxes" not "taxpayers" are contributing $900 Million to the project. The "taxpayers" and the CoA are losing out on $900 Million in REVENUE from hotel taxes used to fund the project and it's long term maintenance.

Make sense?

Semantics aside, my point is "someone" who's paying that hotel tax has to make up for that $900 million in lost revenue, in one way or another (whether it's in additional taxes, or services / amenities / infrastructure being cut, etc.).

For example, see the below article about Cobb County following the handout given to SunTrust park.

https://www.wabe.org/revenue-shortfalls-force-cobb-county-make-hard-budget-decisions/

skyscraperpage17 · #**9467** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 7:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlriser

The city agreed to $200 million in hotel tax. Upkeep and maintenance are done by the GWCC Authority. That’s a state agency not the city. Where is this $700M coming? It’s simply not true.

The city also has added the cost of the bridge but that was done by the city and was STUPID! They made that decision on their own to fund and build that waste of money.

I’m sure the city spent millions more for streets and infrastructure as well but that would be needed whether it was an office tower, residential tower or just a park.

Office towers bring hundreds or even thousands of *GOOD* paying jobs, the kind of jobs that taxpaying higher-end retailers and restaurants like to open nearby.

Residential towers bring an increase in population which (depending on the numbers and types of residents) increases tax revenue, helps to bolster a city's political representation at the state/federal level as well as broaden its access to government grants that are based on a city's size.

Parks improve the quality of life of residents by providing them with a *FREE* option for recreational activities.

Stadiums do none of the above.

Atlanta3000 · #**9468** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 7:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Office towers bring hundreds or even thousands of *GOOD* paying jobs, the kind of jobs that taxpaying higher-end retailers and restaurants like to open nearby.

Residential towers bring an increase in population which (depending on the numbers and types of residents) increases tax revenue, helps to bolster a city's political representation at the state/federal level as well as broaden its access to government grants that are based on a city's size.

Parks improve the quality of life of residents by providing them with a *FREE* option for recreational activities.

Stadiums do none of the above.

Stadiums actually generate a lot of money for cities. Mercedes Benz holds 78K+ people. So with sellout football games, soccer games, concerts and other events, Mercedes Benz will attract Millions of people annually to Downtown that will be spending money on hotels, transportation, food, booze, Crystal Meth...etc.

arctk2014 · #**9469** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 7:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Stadiums actually generate a lot of money for cities. Mercedes Benz holds 78K+ people. So with sellout football games, soccer games, concerts and other events, Mercedes Benz will attract Millions of people annually to Downtown that will be spending money on hotels, transportation, food, booze, Crystal Meth...etc.

The question isn't whether or not they generate revenue - it's whether or not they generate enough revenue (economic impact) to "pay back" the cities who handed over money to help finance these projects.

Most often they haven't.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publicat...conomics-of-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/

https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/public-money-used-build-sports-stadiums

Street Advocate · #**9470** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 9:25 PM**

From curbed re: 725 Ponce:

“The project’s second phase will consume the parking lot in the distance (seen above), near Green’s Beverages on Ponce de Leon Avenue.

Irwin expects work to launch there when the current build is finished. “Honestly, it could anything,” he says, though a phase-two tower would max out at roughly half the current building’s size, with retail at the base.

Growing companies interested in 725 Ponce’s first phase have expressed interest in reserving space in the next flank for future employees.”

PremierAtlanta · #**9471** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 10:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Stadiums actually generate a lot of money for cities. Mercedes Benz holds 78K+ people. So with sellout football games, soccer games, concerts and other events, Mercedes Benz will attract Millions of people annually to Downtown that will be spending money on hotels, transportation, food, booze, Crystal Meth...etc.

Did he say Crystal Meth?

Atlboy72 · #**9472** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 10:08 PM**

I’ve seen rock blasted on many construction sites
I see zero evidence that any has been at all. No
Holes drilled no rock dust. If dirt is being hauled off
I would bet they are selling it to another site for
A little money not because they are doing construction

cabasse · #**9473** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 10:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlboy72

I’ve seen rock blasted on many construction sites
I see zero evidence that any has been at all. No
Holes drilled no rock dust. If dirt is being hauled off
I would bet they are selling it to another site for
A little money not because they are doing construction

i remember seeing a video of them doing actual blasting on their instagram page (or perhaps facebook?)
edit: found it https://www.instagram.com/p/Beaki_nhukf

the kind of people who might be interested in buying here also might be the kind of people who hear that the project is falling apart through word of mouth or other means... (and subsequently decide not to bother with it) lets not speak this one out of existence until it actually is!

PhunkyPho · #**9474** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 10:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlboy72

I’ve seen rock blasted on many construction sites
I see zero evidence that any has been at all. No
Holes drilled no rock dust. If dirt is being hauled off
I would bet they are selling it to another site for
A little money not because they are doing construction

That's, like, the worst poem ever.

Atlanta3000 · #**9475** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 10:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabasse

i remember seeing a video of them doing actual blasting on their instagram page (or perhaps facebook?)

the kind of people who might be interested in buying here also might be the kind of people who hear that the project is falling apart through word of mouth or other means... (and subsequently decide not to bother with it) lets not speak this one out of existence until it actually is!

I saw that video Stucky, they used firecrackers.

Atlboy72 · #**9476** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 10:56 PM**

I would love to be wrong but that’s what I
See

AtlHeel · #**9477** Posted **Aug 17, 2018, 11:01 PM**

Another immeasurable value of MBS is the national, even international, marketing it has given the city. College football national championship, the final four, falcons and AU (hell they're talking about the stadium and our fans in Europe!) and future World Cup semifinals. Priceless advertising for the city.

atlantaguy · #**9478** Posted **Aug 18, 2018, 12:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlHeel

Another immeasurable value of MBS is the national, even international, marketing it has given the city. College football national championship, the final four, falcons and AU (hell they're talking about the stadium and our fans in Europe!) and future World Cup semifinals. Priceless advertising for the city.

It seems as if everyone has forgotten that the Hotel/Motel tax is only permitted by law to be used for 'tourism' related projects like stadiums and arenas. No matter how much visitors pay, those funds were never going to find their way into the City's coffers.

Pemgin · #**9479** Posted **Aug 18, 2018, 12:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I saw that video Stucky, they used firecrackers.

There was a later video of a much more substantial blast that clearly was dynamite.

Street Advocate · #**9480** Posted **Aug 18, 2018, 3:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

It seems as if everyone has forgotten that the Hotel/Motel tax is only permitted by law to be used for 'tourism' related projects like stadiums and arenas. No matter how much visitors pay, those funds were never going to find their way into the City's coffers.

Could have funded the streetcar to tourist attractions.