Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

The LRT tunnel is mot a subway. A subway is a type of rail system that carries more passengers than an light metro system it can use tunnels or be elevated.

A subway is a running way below grade.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

The LRT tunnel is mot a subway. A subway is a type of rail system that carries more passengers than an light metro system it can use tunnels or be elevated.

Let's not get into this kind of discussion. It is not relevant to my comment.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Montreal's Metro has the following Weekend Frequencies (and weekday non-peak isn't much better):

Green line	Every 6 to 12 minutes

Orange line	Every 6 to 12 minutes

Yellow line	Every 5 to 10 minutes

Blue line	Every 8 to 11 minutes

source

I don't see a huge difference between 12 minutes and 15 minutes in terms of public safety.

I agree with this. Also, the Trillium Line has run these frequencies into the night for ever and I don't recall any major incidents.

While the downtown stations will be busier and could have a greater risk of something happening, it would still be much to station cops in every station like @PHrenetic suggested.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

A subway is a running way below grade.

I think it is a useful discussion as it was a mistake to market it as LRT rather than subway or Metro (which conveniently is bilingual or at least pretty close) as nobody knows what LRT means. To a rider a subway is entirely grade separated and is capable of offering frequencies less than 5 minutes. It meets this standard. Lots of subways have above ground sections. New York, Beijing and Moscow for example. Each trainset has a capacity maybe half of a heavy train set but to the user this is irrelevant and the systems above also have shorter sets on some routes at some times.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Montreal's Metro has the following Weekend Frequencies (and weekday non-peak isn't much better):

Green line	Every 6 to 12 minutes

Orange line	Every 6 to 12 minutes

Yellow line	Every 5 to 10 minutes

Blue line	Every 8 to 11 minutes

source

I don't see a huge difference between 12 minutes and 15 minutes in terms of public safety.

Toronto subways run much more frequently on all lines right to the end of service.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I agree with this. Also, the Trillium Line has run these frequencies into the night for ever and I don't recall any major incidents.

While the downtown stations will be busier and could have a greater risk of something happening, it would still be much to station cops in every station like @PHrenetic suggested.

There is a difference between surface and underground stations. Fewer places to escape if necessary when you are underground.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There is a difference between surface and underground stations. Fewer places to escape if necessary when you are underground.

An incident is an incident. Even if there are more ways to "escape", whatever happened would have happened and I've never seen reports of anything like that happening.

Most Trillium Line stations are fenced in with only one or two entry or exit points anyway (other than just running onto the tracks).

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

A subway is a running way below grade.

no it isnt case in point NYC. NYC subway have elevated stations as well

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

no it isnt case in point NYC. NYC subway have elevated stations as well

That's metonymy in action. The Chicago El (as in Elevated) also has subway sections.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

An incident is an incident. Even if there are more ways to "escape", whatever happened would have happened and I've never seen reports of anything like that happening.

Most Trillium Line stations are fenced in with only one or two entry or exit points anyway (other than just running onto the tracks).

People escaping? Certainly there have been incidents at Transitway stations.

It is fine to deny my concern. It does not change my opinion.

[Kitchissippi]

There are likely cameras embedded everywhere and security dispatched when there are suspicious loiterers. Even if there is walking security posted in each subway below-grade station there are a couple of entrances and there's no guarantee they'll be at the site of an incident when it happens. I don't think the problem would necessarily be at the track level, which is only one level from the controlled access concourse. I'd be more concerned with the head houses and escalator/stairs down which are open to public access, and likely to attract panhandlers and homeless people on cold days

[zzptichka]

You'd need 3x13 police officers each being paid what, 100K? That's $4 Million/year - sound like a lot of money and resources being wasted.
IMO having trained station attendant who can also help with connections and buying a ticket would've been more helpful and more affordable.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

People escaping? Certainly there have been incidents at Transitway stations.

It is fine to deny my concern. It does not change my opinion.

So then what are you suggesting? That there be a police presence at all stations at all times?

As history, and the example of Montreal has shown us, that isn't really necessary.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Toronto subways run much more frequently on all lines right to the end of service.

Montreal's schedule is much more typical of what I think of as a late evening subway frequency. Toronto is a real exception to the norm with the high frequency service they run all evening, a function of their network design and high subway utilization due to lack of other subway lines or rapid transit.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think it is a useful discussion as it was a mistake to market it as LRT rather than subway or Metro (which conveniently is bilingual or at least pretty close) as nobody knows what LRT means. To a rider a subway is entirely grade separated and is capable of offering frequencies less than 5 minutes. It meets this standard. Lots of subways have above ground sections. New York, Beijing and Moscow for example. Each trainset has a capacity maybe half of a heavy train set but to the user this is irrelevant and the systems above also have shorter sets on some routes at some times.

Actually I think i totally understand why they went with LRT. Right now the word subway is conflated with "boondoggle", think of NYCs second avenue line or our premier's brother's certain extension to Scarborough. If they had called it either, people in Ottawa would have been clamoring for it to be cancelled because it's "too expensive and subways are for big cities"

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Actually I think i totally understand why they went with LRT. Right now the word subway is conflated with "boondoggle", think of NYCs second avenue line or our premier's brother's certain extension to Scarborough. If they had called it either, people in Ottawa would have been clamoring for it to be cancelled because it's "too expensive and subways are for big cities"

I hope not. Someday we need to build transit right through the densest parts of the city and that means subways. I am thinking of Bank Street and I know others would want it on Rideau and Montreal Road.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

So then what are you suggesting? That there be a police presence at all stations at all times?

As history, and the example of Montreal has shown us, that isn't really necessary.

Maintain frequency until the end of service instead of cutting it back for the last hour.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

I use that station everyday and its been like that for the past month and a bit still nowhere close to completion yet.

I was wondering the myself until i realized why the glass hasn't been closed off. They are lifting things up to the second level in the parts they left open (e.g signs, benches etc ) rather than carrying it up the stairs. They won't put the final pieces of glass on until the very end.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I hope not. Someday we need to build transit right through the densest parts of the city and that means subways. I am thinking of Bank Street and I know others would want it on Rideau and Montreal Road.

A light Metro tunnel under Bank, Rideau and Montreal is the max the city can afford. The city's population would need to to triple for Ottawa to have any reason for a subway. The current light Metro tunnel under Queen and Rideau Station was already expensive enough but at least proves we don't need a Subway and we have a viable more affordable alternative.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

A light Metro tunnel under Bank, Rideau and Montreal is the max the city can afford. The city's population would need to to triple for Ottawa to have any reason for a subway. The current light Metro tunnel under Queen and Rideau Station was already expensive enough but at least proves we don't need a Subway and we have a viable more affordable alternative.

The difference between what you call a light metro tunnel and subway is minor except that the train technology is different. The cost of building both tunnels is about the same. Perhaps the stations can be a bit smaller.


Because the magnitude of both projects is similar and train frequency is usually similar, I am not why it is important to distinguish a light metro tunnel from a subway.