Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Liberty Wellsian]

This is the wrong place for this. A bus maintenance facikity is not the best use of the property now or in the future. In the future it will be limited in its ability to expand. Right now the property could have a greater impact for both ridership and our economy as office and residential. Move this facility north, south, or west. This isn't the right place for it.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by joscar

Last month UTA solicited bids for Construction Manager/General Contractor services to oversee the Depot District Transit Center construction. I'd would imagine we'll be hearing more about this in the coming months.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

This is the wrong place for this. A bus maintenance facikity is not the best use of the property now or in the future. In the future it will be limited in its ability to expand. Right now the property could have a greater impact for both ridership and our economy as office and residential. Move this facility north, south, or west. This isn't the right place for it.

The location is between I-15 and the tracks. It's locked in there already. There's already a big old warehouse facility there that they are just proposing to use that and add some additions. They are not interfering with the intermodal transit center potential expansion, and they are looking at converting the current bus lot to a TOD. See renderings in previous post.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by joscar

Here's some additional information on the phased opening of the UVX stations: https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/c...cdc3991-ca1e-5815-b8b1-fd99796a2f4c.html

Apparently some unexpected historical finds and the inability to get steel (can we blame Trump's tariffs?) are among the reasons for most stations not being opened on August 13.

The problems with steel availability have been going on for a while, since long before tariffs were announced, though perhaps the tariff announcement exacerbated the problem. There have been continual worries about lack of steel for airport construction, though somehow they’ve been able to stay on top of it. I believe non airport projects requiring steel may have a problem getting it until north concourse west is framed out.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Orlando

The location is between I-15 and the tracks. It's locked in there already. There's already a big old warehouse facility there that they are just proposing to use that and add some additions. They are not interfering with the intermodal transit center potential expansion, and they are looking at converting the current bus lot to a TOD. See renderings in previous post.

It is the lot directly west of the station right?

That spot is so close to the central station we would be better served to turn it into office space. (2 city blocks worth. Why not put this on Beck street?

[Makid]

The advantage of this going there though is that it can go almost directly against I-15 at the back edge of the property and then extend South to 4th South and even under the 4th South overpass. There is an image of the project area on page 3 of the following link: http://rideuta.com/-/media/Files/About-U...istrict_Clean_Fuels_Tech_Center_WEB.ashx. Additionally, it looks like there is some space left to the West of the project that could be used for a future project, be it Residential, Commercial or Mixed Use.

This project will allow UTA over time to build the planned reverse commute parking garage, the TOD where the existing bus garage is as well as adaptive reuse for the warehouses just north of the Station along 6th West and 2nd South.

In time though, I still hold out hope for an enclosed station similar to those that I have provided pictures earlier from Germany. One could be built gradually over time without being too expensive provided it was planned properly.

[Hatman]

I hope they leave some space for new and expanded platforms at Salt Lake Central Station. I suppose I could narrow-up my fantasy plans some, but it's still going to get pretty tight around the northwest corner of the old locomotive shop building:



(In my figure Tan is platforms, Pink lines are new tracks for the Park City-Tooele line, Red lines are relocated FrontRunner and Trax tracks to make their platforms wider, and Purple are elevated walkways to connect all the platforms together. White, Gray, and Black are new structures - office buildings, hotel and retail space, and a new signature headhouse for the station.)

I like the idea of large enclosed stations very much... but I also have the feeling that they're a bit of a skeuomorph. Back when trains were pulled by steam engines that exhausted large quantities of coal smoke and super-hot steam, the only way to cover a platform area was to have large voluminous spaces above the trains so that there was a space for these gases to fill beside inside the passengers' lungs.
Stations built today can be much more efficient. Check out this picture of a tram in Dubai:

The station platform is completely climate-controlled, because it is enclosed by glass walls on all sides. When the train pulls up to the platform, 'platform screen doors' open to let passengers in and out of the train.

In my opinion, this is a better option than building a large roof over multiple platforms, because there is no way to efficiently cool or heat a platform that is only protected by a roof, and there is no good way to put doors across the railroad tracks themselves. My ideal version of Salt Lake Central Station would have the platforms arranged as pictured above, and each of them (except the Amtrak platform) would be enclosed and feature Platform Screen Doors. The triangular plaza between Trax and FrontRunner could possibly be fitted with a retractable roof like the City Creek Mall. The idea is that more than a roof, complete climate control is desirable and probably necessary if we want the transit experience to be desirable to the general public beyond us die-hard users.

[Merewether]

Yesterday's walk across town to Pioneer Park farmers' market showed both Lime and Bird dockless scooters now scattered about and in use. Does not seem to be any consensus among users whether these are street or sidewalk vehicles.

[ctobsl]

This is what they need to do on I-15 where it comes into the city from 8 or 6th S to 6th N?

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/08/03/break-ground-central-70-project-denver/

[Makid]

In thought it would be fun or at least different to see how much transit has changed in the last 7 years.

While I don't have access to all the numbers, I only have access through June of 2018. The numbers are available here: https://www.transit.dot.gov/ntd/data-product/monthly-module-raw-data-release

This is done mostly because we are going to see the first real change since the completion of FrontLines this Weekend with service starting Sunday and full service on Monday. UVX, while not all stations will be open service will be running and temp stations will be open as well.

Since FrontLines officially opened service in August of 2011, I wanted to use the numbers from July of 2011 as a baseline. I used June 2018 as a counter point.

July 2011:
FrontRunner: 142,564 Riders
Trax: 1,087,021 Riders
Bus: 1,556,104 Riders

June 2018
FrontRunner: 413,566 Riders
Trax: 1,439,486 Riders
Bus: 1,449,740 Riders

Overall, for the last 7 years since FrontLines: FrontRunner is up 190%, Trax is up 32.42% and Bus is down 6.84%. Overall ridership is up 18.56%. This is just using single month numbers. When I use the Average Ridership for Trax and Bus since August of 2011 through June 2018, Trax is up 44.81% and Bus is up 4.62%.

The highest ridership month for each mode:
FrontRunner: 442,647 - August 2017
Trax: 1,904,649 - September 2015
Bus: 2,253,409 - March 2011

I am very hopeful that UVX succeeds and leads to more Cities wanting similar service. I also hope that more companies, cities and organizations are able to work with UTA to provide low to no cost transit passes for their employees and their families the same way as UVU and BYU have done for their Students, Faculty and Staff. The 100,000 passes will provide a great incentive for people to consider transit.

We should hopefully see steady growth across all transit modes but especially Bus starting on Monday.

August of 2019 will continue the trend as both Salt Lake City dedicated service will increase and UTA will increase service. UTA service increase in SL County will be a mixture of new routes and frequency increases from their share of the 40/40/20 tax increase. The County and City portions have yet to be decided what the funding will be used for post June of 2019. UTA has stated what it will be used for but has not stated the particulars yet.

SLC will look at possibly increasing the transit component and completing the Transit Master Plan with their share of the tax increase. This could include the Trax Black Line (Airport to University). All depends on their estimated annual share to be received from the 40/40/20 tax.

[StevenF]

Anyone know why the flex lanes on 5400 south have not been used the past few months?

[Makid]

Originally Posted by StevenF

Anyone know why the flex lanes on 5400 south have not been used the past few months?

It is due to the construction of the overpass on Bangerter. Once the overpass is complete, I think they will take the flex lanes out as they won't be needed any more.

They didn't really do anything in the morning and were only really effective in helping get people to Bangerter in the the evening rush. Without the cross traffic from Bangerter, the extra assistance from the flex lanes won't be needed for the traffic load.

They are also removing the Through U-Turn at 40th West and 54th South and will be redoing that intersection again. I am not sure if they will also be removing them for the North and South portion of the intersection or not, I only know they will be allowing left turns at the East and West portions again soon.

[Makid]

Here is some good news for Utah County people:

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2018/08/09/riding-new-provo-orem-bus/

Riding the new Provo-Orem bus rapid transit line will be free for three years, thanks to a federal grant

As the new Utah Valley Express (UVX) bus-rapid transit begins service Monday on its 10.5-mile route through Provo and Orem, the price will be right: free.

And it will remain free for everyone for at least the next three years, thanks to a Federal Highway Administration Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality Improvement grant, the Utah Transit Authority announced.

The new line is opening nine months ahead of its original schedule to accommodate BYU and Utah Valley University students as they begin the fall semester. Construction on the line will continue through the fall, requiring use of some temporary stops near permanent stations.

In a deal with UTA last year, BYU and UVU had also agreed to pay $1 million each for 10 years to provide passes for all UTA bus and rail services to their students, staff and their families. Officials said that would provide passes to about 100,000 people a year, and help bolster the new UVX service.

The new UVX is designed to look and act more like a train than a bus, although it operates on highways and on rubber wheels.

Its $1 million electric hybrid cars are 60 feet long, instead of 40 like most buses, with an accordion-like connector in its middle that allows it to bend around curves. Station platforms are elevated like a train’s, so passengers will not walk up bus stairs. It will have only 18 stations, instead of stopping every few blocks.

When construction is complete, bus-only lanes will cover about half of the route. UVX will be able to use priority control at traffic signals to speed it along. These bigger buses have much more standing room than regular ones, and have multiple entrances instead of just one by the driver. Bike racks are onboard, not outside.

UVX buses are scheduled to come every six minutes during morning and evening commutes, every six to 10 minutes during the day, and every 15-60 minutes in the early morning and late evening. Schedule information is available at rideuta.com.

Interim UTA Executive Director Steve Meyer has said bus rapid transit is what much of future transit along the Wasatch Front may look like. BRT lines are much cheaper to build than TRAX lines.

“We have about 200 miles of bus rapid transit in future plans,” he said.

That includes lines from downtown Ogden to Weber State University; from downtown Salt Lake City through Davis County; and from West Valley City through Taylorsville to Murray.

UTA has operated a partial bus rapid transit line in West Valley City for years: the MAX bus on 3500 South. But it has only one mile of exclusive lanes and uses shorter buses.

The new Provo-Orem line cost about $150 million. In contrast, the mid-Jordan TRAX extension on what is now part of its Red Line cost $535 million when it was completed in 2011 to cover an almost identical distance.

UTA has several other schedule changes in its system beginning on Sunday, one of three times a year that it tweaks them.

That includes UTA canceling bus routes 830, 838 and 840 in Utah County, and replacing them with UVX. Minor schedule changes are also being made there to bus routes 821, 831 and 834.

In Salt Lake County, minor schedule changes will be made to the TRAX Red, Blue and Green lines to improve reliability.

The hours of service on bus Routes 33 and 35 (along 3300 and 3500 South in Salt Lake County) will be lengthened to provide evening service at more stops. Because of that service, the MAX bus service along the same route will end earlier.

Some scheduling changes are also coming in Salt Lake County to bus routes 21, 47, 72, 200, 201, 209, 213, 217, 240, 313, 354, 516, 525, 526, 551, F94, F504, F518, F522, F546 and F547 to increase reliability or improve connections with TRAX.

In Weber County, UTA is canceling FrontRunner train service to Pleasant View, and replacing it with Route 616 bus service.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Very cool! I hope this is very successful. We need to experiment system wide with a free system.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

Very cool! I hope this is very successful. We need to experiment system wide with a free system.

I agree. The 1 day we had last year was very well received and it had very little notice. Ridership was between 75% to 125% above normal for the average daily values and it was the day before a holiday when many people were off work. I would really like to know what ridership would be like over the course of a normal week or month.

We already know what the costs would be on a yearly basis for free transit ( just over $25 Million ). But that is without considering that UTA could save money by reducing personnel from the current fare collection positions or moving them to other positions. The same for ticket machine maintenance and fare card promotions.

They would be able to increase the advertising revenue within the UTA vehicles due to increased ridership from the captive audience. They could have the current static ads but also install digital billboards. These could be installed in the trains. They could also be used to help fund the electrification of FrontRunner. The same or similar electronic billboards could be installed at the Trax and FrontRunner stations for additional revenue.

Partnering with Yesco and Reagan billboards could yield the additional revenue with minimal costs to no cost for UTA. UTA could pay them an annual fee from the advertising revenue while Yesco and Reagan would do the maintenance on the billboards. UTA would be able to control the advertising and the rates.

If ridership were to increase as estimated, double, with free fares. Advertising could bring in roughly $5 to $7 Million annually for UTA with electronic billboards in trains.

The downside is that FrontRunner would fail without adding cars to the trains and the need to be double tracked would be pressing. The current load is near failure already at certain times of the day.

That is the biggest issue that we need to overcome. UTA has stated they cannot handle the load if fares were removed from the system. We need to get UTA to the point that it could handle the load and UTA needs to prepare and plan for it. The State has stated that it wants and needs UTA to have free fares shortly after the Prison has been relocated as it is the only way they can ensure that traffic can continue to move through the Utah County/SL County area as the Population increases. There just isn't enough room for more roads.

It is why the State wants to extend the Blue Line to Utah County as well as double track/electrify FrontRunner. Get as much mass transit between the 2 Counties as possible and make it free to keep the highways moving.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

Very cool! I hope this is very successful. We need to experiment system wide with a free system.

Especially when farebox collection is around 10-20% at best. If we are subsidizing 80%+, why not just subsidize the whole thing?

What's the worst that will happen? TOO MANY people will ride mass transit? Oh, what a problem to have.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by i-215

Especially when farebox collection is around 10-20% at best. If we are subsidizing 80%+, why not just subsidize the whole thing?

What's the worst that will happen? TOO MANY people will ride mass transit? Oh, what a problem to have.

So everybody, get out and ride the UVX! Today is OPENING DAY!


The soonest I can ride it will be this Saturday, but if anyone gets a chance to ride it before then, I would love a user review!

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Hatman

So everybody, get out and ride the UVX! Today is OPENING DAY!


The soonest I can ride it will be this Saturday, but if anyone gets a chance to ride it before then, I would love a user review!

Is there any initial indication of how popular it was on opening day?

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Hatman

I hope they leave some space for new and expanded platforms at Salt Lake Central Station. I suppose I could narrow-up my fantasy plans some, but it's still going to get pretty tight around the northwest corner of the old locomotive shop building:



(In my figure Tan is platforms, Pink lines are new tracks for the Park City-Tooele line, Red lines are relocated FrontRunner and Trax tracks to make their platforms wider, and Purple are elevated walkways to connect all the platforms together. White, Gray, and Black are new structures - office buildings, hotel and retail space, and a new signature headhouse for the station.)

I like the idea of large enclosed stations very much... but I also have the feeling that they're a bit of a skeuomorph. Back when trains were pulled by steam engines that exhausted large quantities of coal smoke and super-hot steam, the only way to cover a platform area was to have large voluminous spaces above the trains so that there was a space for these gases to fill beside inside the passengers' lungs.
Stations built today can be much more efficient. Check out this picture of a tram in Dubai:

The station platform is completely climate-controlled, because it is enclosed by glass walls on all sides. When the train pulls up to the platform, 'platform screen doors' open to let passengers in and out of the train.

In my opinion, this is a better option than building a large roof over multiple platforms, because there is no way to efficiently cool or heat a platform that is only protected by a roof, and there is no good way to put doors across the railroad tracks themselves. My ideal version of Salt Lake Central Station would have the platforms arranged as pictured above, and each of them (except the Amtrak platform) would be enclosed and feature Platform Screen Doors. The triangular plaza between Trax and FrontRunner could possibly be fitted with a retractable roof like the City Creek Mall. The idea is that more than a roof, complete climate control is desirable and probably necessary if we want the transit experience to be desirable to the general public beyond us die-hard users.

What are the expected station spacing if 200 south is a BRT vs Streetcar? My concern is the BRT functions much better as a commuter system than a locals system.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

What are the expected station spacing if 200 south is a BRT vs Streetcar? My concern is the BRT functions much better as a commuter system than a locals system.

That depends on how you define the term "brt". If we use it as a catchall for a bus with dedicated lanes and raised station platforms then the opposite should be true on most lines designed to serve locals. What we are really talking about is the benefits/limitations of rail and tires.

To keep it short I will just say this: generally speaking tires win the day until you hit a set capacity threshold. The benefits of tires over rail are obvious so why ever use rail? Well because if you try to run a line like Trax on tires the capacity limitations of the vehicles would lead to chaos and would be energy inefficient when compared to rail but...

The S-line would probably be a much better service if it were on tires. Frequency could be set at almost any level without new construction(assuming two lanes of asphalt on the whole line), we wouldn't have to decide on any one route to extend it because at the end of the"brt" section it could branch into multiple 15 min bus lines, any breakdown or accident could quickly and easily be cleared from the line, etc. IMV most often a streetcar is nothing more than trying to put a square peg (a train) into a round hole (bus).

Let's focus on quality permanent infrastructure across all modes of our transit system. The experience of riding a bus shouldn't be much different than a railed vehicle. The biggest difference should be the number of riders to a vehicle.

If a line is expected to exceed a large bus running every say 5 mins let's do rail, if not let's do tires.