Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's a pity that they want to bury the line - an elevated line would have some of the best views in the city. It's one of the things I love about the Expo line.

I really don't get why the ridership experience of hundreds of thousands of people a day never seems to be a consideration, especially when it would lead to lower capital costs...

Sure, a cursory look at Broadway will show that it could probably support a viaduct... but then you need room for stations and track turns and construction crews. The City/TransLink reps will tell you as much; it's not like we have an ex-railway or a wide road/ROW like No.3. to work with.

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I disagree with this argument. Lots of people said it about the Canada Line. But I think the experience of the riders matters a lot less than the experience of those travelling the street having to face that eyesore. I love having the views too. But do I think Richmond City Centre would look better with the Canada Line buried (putting aside the fact that it can't be)? Without a doubt.

That's strange - I always thought the elevated guideway made Marine/Richmond look all urbane and modern.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Can you imagine if the Expo Line was built as street level rail, where we'd be now?

Like Portland.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

A quote from that article:

He's not entirely wrong - most of the demand will probably drop once SkyTrain makes it to UBC. Even by 2200, light rail down 41st (given partial tunnelling like Eglinton, of course) or Dunbar/Macdonald/Arbutus should pick up the slack just fine.

[logan5]

The good thing they did with the Canada Line in Richmond is they built the line off to the side of the street, where it integrates better with the urban fabric. Given the rawness and openness of the UBC Line (from Blanca onwards), this could easily be done - see Berlin S-Bahn. But I do recall a report saying that the cost savings to go from underground to elevated for the last 2.5 km's of the route were negligible. Don't know how concrete that report was though.

I would agree that elevated transit is a more pleasant experience for the user, and if you can integrate elevated lines into the urban fabric like they have done in Berlin, you also have a more interesting urban experience.

If the cost difference is negligible, then go elevated where you can. Even if we just avoid the absurdness of having a subway below a golf course would make it worth it.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

But I think the experience of the riders matters a lot less than the experience of those travelling the street having to face that eyesore.

Why? There's more people on the trains than on the street. Why shouldn't we give them some consideration?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by logan5

The good thing they did with the Canada Line in Richmond is they built the line off to the side of the street, where it integrates better with the urban fabric. Given the rawness and openness of the UBC Line (from Blanca onwards), this could easily be done - see Berlin S-Bahn. But I do recall a report saying that the cost savings to go from underground to elevated for the last 2.5 km's of the route were negligible. Don't know how concrete that report was though.

I would agree that elevated transit is a more pleasant experience for the user, and if you can integrate elevated lines into the urban fabric like they have done in Berlin, you also have a more interesting urban experience.

If the cost difference is negligible, then go elevated where you can. Even if we just avoid the absurdness of having a subway below a golf course would make it worth it.

The only caveat I would like to add is it should be elevate through the park. This brings a type of beauty to the line.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Thought experiment: would whoever's in charge of land acquisition be willing to expropriate parts of the UEL golf course? Removing/replacing the two northwestern-most holes would seemingly allow the Millennium to run above ground on West 8th onwards, then split off College Highroad straight through Pacific Spirit to Lelem & University Village.

let the howling from the "creme de la creme" rich west-siders in West Point Grey begin!

their objections to the proposed Arbutus elevated rail would seem like a sunday school picnic in comparison

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The only caveat I would like to add is it should be elevate through the park. This brings a type of beauty to the line.

elevated trains through a golf course full of annoyed west siders?

what could possibly go wrong?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

elevated trains through a golf course full of annoyed west siders?

what could possibly go wrong?

I meant the University Endowment Lands.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

it would be much better to keep it underground. plus, through a golf course??? those are meant to be quiet. you'd loose a long of members and the ability for membership fees if that happened.

i for one much much much much 1000% prefer seeing the tree-lined Cambie Boulevard than see an overhead viaduct.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

it would be much better to keep it underground. plus, through a golf course??? those are meant to be quiet. you'd loose a long of members and the ability for membership fees if that happened.

i for one much much much much 1000% prefer seeing the tree-lined Cambie Boulevard than see an overhead viaduct.

This. What the street looks like from the street is so much more important than what it looks like from the train. Placemaking is more valuable than nice views for commuters.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I've been to the driving range a couple times back in high school, and I doubt SkyTrain'd be any louder than the traffic along Uni Boulevard. As for people who do find it ugly (), that's what a giant, pre-existing tree break is for - it should mitigate the "noise issue" as well.

Seriously, if there's any reason to not build through empty woods, save a hundred mil or two and cheer up faculty/students on their way to school or home, it really should be an insurmountable engineering problem. Not a few easily-distracted golfers.

[SgtNeonPanda]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

This. What the street looks like from the street is so much more important than what it looks like from the train. Placemaking is more valuable than nice views for commuters.

Seems to be a good argument against viewcones, as well, since they are designed based on street center-lines, not pedestrian spaces such as sidewalks.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by SgtNeonPanda

Seems to be a good argument against viewcones, as well, since they are designed based on street center-lines, not pedestrian spaces such as sidewalks.

Not really true if you actually look at the list of the view cones. There are just as many inside parks.

[ilikeredheads]

Part of me wants to see the stretch along University Blvd to be elevated just so the line will be plagued by service disruption caused by random golf balls setting off the track intrusion alarm hahaha.

Unless for some dumb reasons UBC wants their station sitting above the trolley bus loop, I don't see why the line would run elevated at all.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

Part of me wants to see the stretch along University Blvd to be elevated just so the line will be plagued by service disruption caused by random golf balls setting off the track intrusion alarm hahaha.

Unless for some dumb reasons UBC wants their station sitting above the trolley bus loop, I don't see why the line would run elevated at all.

The golf holes run parallel (not perpendicular) to any ROW, and the viaduct would be well above the 17' clearance needed for trolleys. It'll likely be some other reason if TransLink says it won't work.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

Part of me wants to see the stretch along University Blvd to be elevated just so the line will be plagued by service disruption caused by random golf balls setting off the track intrusion alarm hahaha.

Unless for some dumb reasons UBC wants their station sitting above the trolley bus loop, I don't see why the line would run elevated at all.

There's no intrusion system on the guideways, just the station.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

it would be much better to keep it underground. plus, through a golf course??? those are meant to be quiet. you'd loose a long of members and the ability for membership fees if that happened.

i for one much much much much 1000% prefer seeing the tree-lined Cambie Boulevard than see an overhead viaduct.

So you're saying the Golf Course has a financial interest in seeing the line underground? Perhaps they should contribute the additional costs...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

Part of me wants to see the stretch along University Blvd to be elevated just so the line will be plagued by service disruption caused by random golf balls setting off the track intrusion alarm hahaha.

Unless for some dumb reasons UBC wants their station sitting above the trolley bus loop, I don't see why the line would run elevated at all.

It could easily rise to ground level along University Blvd and go back underground for the UBC loop. I'm not sure what that saves in construction costs, if any. Or how much easier/harder it is to maintain.

If a large branch or tree falls on the line every windy storm, not worth it.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It could easily rise to ground level along University Blvd and go back underground for the UBC loop. I'm not sure what that saves in construction costs, if any. Or how much easier/harder it is to maintain.

If a large branch or tree falls on the line every windy storm, not worth it.

Couldn't it be caged in?