YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Gordon]

KE YVR ICN is using D59 today

[nname]

Air New Zealand adds Boeing 787 service to Vancouver in NW18

Air New Zealand in Northern winter 2018/19 season is introducing Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft on Auckland – Vancouver market, replacing 777-200ER. The 787-9 aircraft will operate from 31OCT18. Additionally, during peak season the Star Alliance member will introduce additional service, up to 8-9 flights a week.

28OCT18 – 02DEC18 4 weekly (Day x124)
03DEC18 – 09DEC18 5 weekly (Day x24)
10DEC18 – 09FEB19 8 weekly (NZ022/025 operates Day 6; Additional flight added on 08JAN19)
10FEB19 – 24FEB19 7 weekly
25FEB19 – 28MAR19 6 weekly (Day x2)

NZ024 AKL2005 – 1210YVR 789
NZ022 AKL2230 – 1435YVR 789

NZ023 YVR1825 – 0530+2AKL 789
NZ025 YVR2055 – 0800+2AKL 789

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...boeing-787-service-to-vancouver-in-nw18/

I assume it would be the version with more Y and less PY and C?

[Hourglass]

Cathay Pacific will begin 4x/week service from Hong Kong to Seattle on 31 March 2019. Different markets, but will be interesting to see what the impact is -- if any -- on YVR. I'm guessing CX saw an opportunity to jump in since DL is ending their HKG-SEA service.

[mezzanine]

Yeah, interesting to see how the forum at airliners parses this new CX/SEA service. a late night SEA departure with a 0525 arrival will force a long layover for india-bound pax. the timing also seems to mirror BR service from SEA with similar connections to SE asia, with perhaps better connections to mainland china from HKG versus BR/TPE.

The flight returns to SEA at ~ 2100, limiting connections to further points in the USA.

Well, we'll see how this service does and how it impacts YVR business. as always, watch the J/PY demand, and on the flip side watch out for oddly unsustainable seat sales at YVR and SEA..

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by nname

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...boeing-787-service-to-vancouver-in-nw18/

I assume it would be the version with more Y and less PY and C?

The daily flight is the Y heavy configuration and the Tuesday/Saturday extra service is the premium heavy configuration.

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Yeah, interesting to see how the forum at airliners parses this new CX/SEA service. a late night SEA departure with a 0525 arrival will force a long layover for india-bound pax. the timing also seems to mirror BR service from SEA with similar connections to SE asia, with perhaps better connections to mainland china from HKG versus BR/TPE.

The flight returns to SEA at ~ 2100, limiting connections to further points in the USA.

Well, we'll see how this service does and how it impacts YVR business. as always, watch the J/PY demand, and on the flip side watch out for oddly unsustainable seat sales at YVR and SEA..

Seems to be primarily aimed at O&D to SEA with schedules like that. I'm sure at 5x PW or even daily they'll be fine.

[LeftCoaster]

Anyone catch this article on Daily Hive? It's 'custom content' which means it was paid for an written by YVR.
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-yvr-by-the-numbers

The one tidbit I found really interesting is that they said they expect destinations to expand from 127 today to 144 by 2020. That's 14 new destinations in the next 24-30 months.

What do you guys think they'll be? Here are my guesses:



Of course red is domestic, blue is trans-border and orange is intl'.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I leave YVR on wednesday and get to Melbourne on friday, I got an email today and they gave me an upgrade to premium economy, it is going to be better since its 16 hours+ on the plane. I'll suffer on the way home in economy.

Ok now it’s official! Welcome to Australia and unlike Tuesday’s flight AC37 arrived nice and early.

Enjoy your trip.

[Johnny Aussie]

Singacouver has a nice ring to it.

YVR twitter picked up on this followed by a friendly exchange between YVR and SIN .

http://www.anna.aero/2018/07/04/singapor...-route-of-the-week-with-130000-searches/

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Anyone catch this article on Daily Hive? It's 'custom content' which means it was paid for an written by YVR.
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-yvr-by-the-numbers

The one tidbit I found really interesting is that they said they expect destinations to expand from 127 today to 144 by 2020. That's 14 new destinations in the next 24-30 months.

What do you guys think they'll be? Here are my guesses:



Of course red is domestic, blue is trans-border and orange is intl'.

Still no direct flight to Orlando? I wonder if there is since I flew and stayed there for eight days. (This might be a stupid question since I’m not familiar with aircraft flight routes, service, destinations and so on.)

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Still no direct flight to Orlando? I wonder if there is since I flew and stayed there for eight days. (This might be a stupid question since I’m not familiar with aircraft flight routes, service, destinations and so on.)

Seasonal nonstop on Westjet winter only.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Seasonal nonstop on Westjet winter only.

For December to March or November to February?

Then again, Disneyland is much closer to YVR than Disneyworld is. HNL is much closer to where I live than PUJ (Dominican Republic), where my family lives.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Anyone catch this article on Daily Hive? It's 'custom content' which means it was paid for an written by YVR.
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-yvr-by-the-numbers

The one tidbit I found really interesting is that they said they expect destinations to expand from 127 today to 144 by 2020. That's 14 new destinations in the next 24-30 months.

What do you guys think they'll be? Here are my guesses:



Of course red is domestic, blue is trans-border and orange is intl'.

IMO, domestic seems fine.
Transborder... what drives the Nashville market? (I know Calgary has a Nashville flight on WS .... tied to the music industry? I'd have thought maybe MCI would be more profitable)
International: Singapore, YES!! Istanbul, YES!! But why only PTY and not GRU? Apparently there's a big Tokyo-São Paulo market.
And Dubai? Do we need that?? Hanoi but no Bangkok? hmm

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

IMO, domestic seems fine.
Transborder... what drives the Nashville market? (I know Calgary has a Nashville flight on WS .... tied to the music industry? I'd have thought maybe MCI would be more profitable)
International: Singapore, YES!! Istanbul, YES!! But why only PTY and not GRU? Apparently there's a big Tokyo-São Paulo market.
And Dubai? Do we need that?? Hanoi but no Bangkok? hmm

Ya, I would make the following amendments:

Remove Reno OR Austin
Remove Nashville
Remove Dubai
Add Sao Paulo
Add Bangkok
Add Chongqing


Sao Paulo is obvious for the reasons already mentioned. Bangkok due to it being an already identified city pair, along with Vietnam Airlines/Hanoi. Chongqing because it is by far the biggest city in China without non-stop service to Canada.

[thenoflyzone]

The way the article is written, YVR seems to confirm 144 destinations by 2020. So either they already know which airlines will launch what routes, or they are simply projecting the growth of the last 5-10 years. I think it might be a bit of both, but with oil prices on the rise, and AC's growth period ending, 144 by 2020 is a bit optimistic.

Nonetheless, here goes....

One of the new destinations is Liberia. That one is confirmed.

As for the rest, as far as long haul is concerned, SIN and IST are the two likely destinations. China and the U.A.E have bilateral challenges, so those are out. Of course some Chinese airline already serving YVR can juggle it's schedule and add Xian. Vietnam is too long and too low yielding, especiallly with oil prices on the rise.

In the US, from Lefty's list, all except PHL are long shots. MIA is a long shot also. Don't see AA launching it. They already have YVR-South America covered through DFW. AC couldn't make MCO work, so MIA is a tough sell. With the DL tie-up, it makes more sense for WS to launch ATL rather than MIA. I can definitely see AA launching PHL-YVR though.

In Misc, PTY is a likely candidate, once they get their hands on some Max 8s. GRU has been discussed ad nauseum. We all know the challenges of South America, especially deep South America.

As for the Canadian cities, all of them make sense, except for Windsor. YQB needs more west coast destinations, but it will be a tough sell. WS is trying YYC-YQB this year, seasonally. Hopefully it stays. So a YVR-YQB would be cool to see also.

So to sum up, 144 by 2020 is a nice wishlist. Chances are they wont get there by 2020.

[osirisboy]

What's yvr thinking that they can add all those new destinations??!! Who do think they are, Montreal or somethin?

[whatnext]

Who's the genius at YVR who thought it would be a great idea to install those new anti-van attack bollards during peak season?

And multiple sets of speedbumps leading up to the terminal?

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

The way the article is written, YVR seems to confirm 144 destinations by 2020. So either they already know which airlines will launch what routes, or they are simply projecting the growth of the last 5-10 years. I think it might be a bit of both, but with oil prices on the rise, and AC's growth period ending, 144 by 2020 is a bit optimistic.

I believe some of the 7M8 and CS3 A220s are for expansion? Maybe these new generation aircrafts will make some of the routes viable.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Still no direct flight to Orlando? I wonder if there is since I flew and stayed there for eight days. (This might be a stupid question since I’m not familiar with aircraft flight routes, service, destinations and so on.)

There is a direct flight to Orlando, and it's counted as one of the 127.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

The way the article is written, YVR seems to confirm 144 destinations by 2020. So either they already know which airlines will launch what routes, or they are simply projecting the growth of the last 5-10 years. I think it might be a bit of both, but with oil prices on the rise, and AC's growth period ending, 144 by 2020 is a bit optimistic.

Nonetheless, here goes....

One of the new destinations is Liberia. That one is confirmed.

As for the rest, as far as long haul is concerned, SIN and IST are the two likely destinations. China and the U.A.E have bilateral challenges, so those are out. Of course some Chinese airline already serving YVR can juggle it's schedule and add Xian. Vietnam is too long and too low yielding, especiallly with oil prices on the rise.

In the US, from Lefty's list, all except PHL are long shots. MIA is a long shot also. Don't see AA launching it. They already have YVR-South America covered through DFW. AC couldn't make MCO work, so MIA is a tough sell. With the DL tie-up, it makes more sense for WS to launch ATL rather than MIA. I can definitely see AA launching PHL-YVR though.

In Misc, PTY is a likely candidate, once they get their hands on some Max 8s. GRU has been discussed ad nauseum. We all know the challenges of South America, especially deep South America.

As for the Canadian cities, all of them make sense, except for Windsor. YQB needs more west coast destinations, but it will be a tough sell. WS is trying YYC-YQB this year, seasonally. Hopefully it stays. So a YVR-YQB would be cool to see also.

So to sum up, 144 by 2020 is a nice wishlist. Chances are they wont get there by 2020.

Liberia is already counted in the 127. Their website "Destinations Brochure" displays 125 current destinations, so Liberia and one other I can't figure out are the missing destinations to get it to 127.

As for the rest of the intl. I was thinking a new china route would be one of the weird tack-ons like China Eastern does with Kunming. MU in particular had expressed interest in a Xi'an tack on in the past. Only reason I included Dubai was the bilateral negotiations supposedly taking place right now. I could see YYZ going daily and a few more nuggets tossed out to YUL and YVR. Hanoi is a longer shot but I could see it happening, the economics remind me of Philippine Airlines, but they have more appropriate planes for the route.

As for transborder I based it off the 2016 O&D from Statscan. Miami is just a shade under 100k O&D, its the largest unserved transborder route if I recall correctly, and much higher yielding than Orlando. Austin is 26k in O&D and growing quickly, with growing tech sector links and teh A220 I could see it making sense. Nashville was a reach, but Vancouver's O&D is higher than Calgary's and apparently their route is exceeding expectations, so I don't know why AC couldn't take a swing at it. Spokane... well I dunno, seems close.

As for Canada its a tough one as there are only so many airports in the west that can even land a plane large enough to get there, so it's slim pickings. I think it's more likely we add Lima or Chongquing than Windsor so maybe I should just remove one of the domestic destinations.

[Gordon]

China Canada Bi-lateral

How much space is there for Canadian airlines to add flights to china?

The DL frlight to ATL is a red eye, could they no get a better landing slot?

[nname]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

There is a direct flight to Orlando, and it's counted as one of the 127.



Liberia is already counted in the 127. Their website "Destinations Brochure" displays 125 current destinations, so Liberia and one other I can't figure out are the missing destinations to get it to 127.

Hmm... Tofino Long Beach and Tofino Harbour is counted as different destination?
Or it's missing Vancouver Harbour... Helijet have two daily YVR-CXH flights on weekdays.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

As for transborder I based it off the 2016 O&D from Statscan. Miami is just a shade under 100k O&D, its the largest unserved transborder route if I recall correctly, and much higher yielding than Orlando. Austin is 26k in O&D and growing quickly, with growing tech sector links and teh A220 I could see it making sense. Nashville was a reach, but Vancouver's O&D is higher than Calgary's and apparently their route is exceeding expectations, so I don't know why AC couldn't take a swing at it. Spokane... well I dunno, seems close.

If AC wants to build a hub in YVR like they did in YYZ, then those short-hual flights like Spokane, or maybe even Oakland, Ontario, Santa Ana, Eugene, Boise would make sense (similar to Harrisburg, Savanna, Rochester, etc from YYZ). But the thing is... The TPAC offering at YVR is much much less than the wide range TATL flights in YYZ. In fact, what makes YVR special that will attract people to connect here? You can list a whole list of European destination for YYZ, but for YVR... I can only think of KIX, NGO, .. and to a much lesser degree, DEL, TPE, BNE, and MEL.

Originally Posted by Gordon

China Canada Bi-lateral

How much space is there for Canadian airlines to add flights to china?

I lost count already... but Canada only used about half of them, so at least 4 dailies left.
The problem is... getting a slot at any of the Chinese airport is probably much harder than the bilateral negation...