The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 554

lrt's friend · #**11061** Posted **Jul 18, 2018, 5:59 PM**

A good way to have little ridership especially on suburban routes is to have no major transit destinations on the route other than a transfer station. It is important the bus routes serve at least one major transit destination such as a major mall. There needs to be places to go that don't require a transfer. That hourly or half hourly bus is not very handy when you must transfer to it in order to get home from pretty well every destination. A few missed transfers and lengthy waits is all that is needed to convince most riders to find another means of transportation.

Chadillaccc · #**11062** Posted **Jul 18, 2018, 8:29 PM**

Calgary's Airport Rail Link has been expedited and the alignment is now approved. The technology used will be independent of both the Blue and Green Lines which it will connect to upon completion in the 2020s. This will be done to maintain service levels to the communities north of the spur on both lines.

Speaking of the Green Line, station concepts have been released. Full construction (tunnel boring, track construction) starts in about a year. Utility relocation and expropriation has been underway for a while.

And a map!

FFX-ME · #**11063** Posted **Jul 18, 2018, 8:48 PM**

Darn. So Calgary is going the Ottawa route as well and will not provide a direct link from the airport to downtown, instead opting for a tiny spur. This is a missed opportunity...

MalcolmTucker · #**11064** Posted **Jul 18, 2018, 8:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Darn. So Calgary is going the Ottawa route as well and will not provide a direct link from the airport to downtown, instead opting for a tiny spur. This is a missed opportunity...

There just isn't enough demand - airports aren't great trip generators. A one seat to downtown option can be looked at later, piggy backing on extra capacity from future regional rail or highspeed rail.

And it isn't a spur - there will be a forced transfer. A forced transfer can actually provide better service that a spur and one seat to downtown, as the service to the airport can operate much more frequently.

Display boards from the open house:

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Documents/Transit-projects/RPR-COC-ATS-boards.pdf

p_xavier · #**11065** Posted **Jul 18, 2018, 9:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Darn. So Calgary is going the Ottawa route as well and will not provide a direct link from the airport to downtown, instead opting for a tiny spur. This is a missed opportunity...

Well, seems it'll be a people mover, plus if it connects two lines and have multiple airport stations, it would still be better than Ottawa's solution.

White Pine · #**11066** Posted **Jul 18, 2018, 11:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Darn. So Calgary is going the Ottawa route as well and will not provide a direct link from the airport to downtown, instead opting for a tiny spur. This is a missed opportunity...

Although I suspect there would be some opposition, I don't think a transfer from the airport is necessarily a bad thing. I personally like the "Every train is your train" model, two (similar modes, and high enough frequency) lines make some sense in that regard. As long as it's connected to the network at large, it shouldn't be too bad.

Also connecting to the blue and green lines gives you more choices as to where downtown you can go.

Yes, you could argue that Calgary already shares a line downtown, but that doesn't have to tie the city's hands forever. Also (pipe dream), there's the possibility of a ring line in the future?

In Ottawa, the compromise they're looking at involves two transfers to get downtown. We'll see how much use it gets.

Chadillaccc · #**11067** Posted **Jul 18, 2018, 11:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

There just isn't enough demand - airports aren't great trip generators. A one seat to downtown option can be looked at later, piggy backing on extra capacity from future regional rail or highspeed rail.

And it isn't a spur - there will be a forced transfer. A forced transfer can actually provide better service that a spur and one seat to downtown, as the service to the airport can operate much more frequently.

Display boards from the open house:

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Documents/Transit-projects/RPR-COC-ATS-boards.pdf

That is exactly what's likely to happen.

However, I kind of like that it will be separate tech. While I do see the appeal of having a one ride to the core system, with this way, around a quarter of the population of the city will have a two seat ride from the airport to a station that is within walking distance from their home, because it will directly serve the Blue Line (the third longest line at 27 km) and the Green Line (the longest line at 46 km). So I think it's a fine option.

swimmer_spe · #**11068** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 1:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Pine

Although I suspect there would be some opposition, I don't think a transfer from the airport is necessarily a bad thing. I personally like the "Every train is your train" model, two (similar modes, and high enough frequency) lines make some sense in that regard. As long as it's connected to the network at large, it shouldn't be too bad.

Also connecting to the blue and green lines gives you more choices as to where downtown you can go.

Yes, you could argue that Calgary already shares a line downtown, but that doesn't have to tie the city's hands forever. Also (pipe dream), there's the possibility of a ring line in the future?

In Ottawa, the compromise they're looking at involves two transfers to get downtown. We'll see how much use it gets.

The top 5 cities in Canada are Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary and Ottawa.

Currently only 2 of these cities have rail transit to their airports - Toronto and Vancouver. The Skytrain from YVR is not that busy. The UPX had to lower it's price due to lack of ridership.

Having a rail service to the airports is a good idea, but it is not a major trip generator.

GreaterMontréal · #**11069** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 2:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The top 5 cities in Canada are Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary and Ottawa.

Currently only 2 of these cities have rail transit to their airports - Toronto and Vancouver. The Skytrain from YVR is not that busy. The UPX had to lower it's price due to lack of ridership.

Having a rail service to the airports is a good idea, but it is not a major trip generator.

the REM will do YUL-Downtown in 18-20min with the Express, that's plenty fast, even though there is no direct link to the airport.

gunnar777 · #**11070** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 5:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

the REM will do YUL-Downtown in 18-20min with the Express, that's plenty fast, even though there is no direct link to the airport.

What do you mean by "no direct link"?

lrt's friend · #**11071** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 1:53 PM**

I would much rather have a direct train run every 15 minutes, than have a 5 minute train and have to haul my luggage between trains. More likely the trains will run every 15 minutes and we will still have to haul luggage between trains.

There is a big difference when transferring if the only thing you are carrying is a briefcase, and when you are travelling and have a bunch of bags, and perhaps trying to keep your whole family together and the city is unfamiliar.

WhipperSnapper · #**11072** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 1:58 PM**

I've met my share of people that found the airport rocket bus in Toronto to the airport efficient. It ain't glamorous by any means. There's no flights of stairs to lug luggage up and down like so many glamorous train stations in Europe.

There's pride in having the only fixed airport link for so many years in Canada and than there's reality. Just my opinion of course.

niwell · #**11073** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 2:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I've met my share of people that found the airport rocket bus in Toronto to the airport efficient. It ain't glamorous by any means. There's no flights of stairs to lug luggage up and down like so many glamorous train stations in Europe.

There's pride in having the only fixed airport link for so many years in Canada and than there's reality. Just my opinion of course.

I usually take UP to Pearson since the station is walking distance from my place, or I leave directly from the office and it's pretty convenient. But the express bus is actually surprisingly great service, particularly during off-peak hours. If you are on the B-D line in the east end it actually ends up being faster than UP.

p_xavier · #**11074** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 2:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I've met my share of people that found the airport rocket bus in Toronto to the airport efficient. It ain't glamorous by any means. There's no flights of stairs to lug luggage up and down like so many glamorous train stations in Europe.

There's pride in having the only fixed airport link for so many years in Canada and than there's reality. Just my opinion of course.

Same for the 747 in Montreal, it was for a while the only bus line that made money (sure it's costlier for a single ticket but monthly pases are accepted.

I enjoy the rocket and prefer it to the UP express.

GreaterMontréal · #**11075** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 10:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnar777

What do you mean by "no direct link"?

the airport branch is part of the main line, and not connected directly to Gare Centrale. it will be like in Vancouver.

GlassCity · #**11076** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 10:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

the airport branch is part of the main line, and not connected directly to Gare Centrale. it will be like in Vancouver.

How is that not a direct link though? It's one seat from the airport to downtown in Vancouver, and it looks like it'll be the same in Montreal. It being a branch is inconsequential to it being direct or not.

p_xavier · #**11077** Posted **Jul 19, 2018, 11:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

the airport branch is part of the main line, and not connected directly to Gare Centrale. it will be like in Vancouver.

It is directly connected to Gare Centrale... and to Bonaventure metro station. I still don't get what you mean.

GreaterMontréal · #**11078** Posted **Jul 20, 2018, 12:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

It is directly connected to Gare Centrale... and to Bonaventure metro station. I still don't get what you mean.

by direct I meant, no stops between the 2.

p_xavier · #**11079** Posted **Jul 20, 2018, 9:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

by direct I meant, no stops between the 2.

You meant non-stop then and not even the UP Express offers that

TorontoDrew · #**11080** Posted **Jul 20, 2018, 5:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Calgary's Airport Rail Link has been expedited and the alignment is now approved. The technology used will be independent of both the Blue and Green Lines which it will connect to upon completion in the 2020s. This will be done to maintain service levels to the communities north of the spur on both lines.

Speaking of the Green Line, station concepts have been released. Full construction (tunnel boring, track construction) starts in about a year. Utility relocation and expropriation has been underway for a while.

And a map!

What happens to the overhead lines in the underground stations?