Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

You might get tunnel vision too, if you've been advocating for something long as Pachal has. If SkyTrain for Langley is confirmed and he starts kicking and screaming, then we get upset... but that's still no reason to randomly call him a chemtrail nut.

I compared him to one, not calling him one, otherwise it would be obvious for the general public to notice. The comparison was a little extreme on my part as I interpreted the wording from that article Waders linked as an LRT nut willfully ignorant, similar to—wrongly—chemtrail nuts.

[GlassCity]

Pachal is a smart and progressive councillor. It's disappointing he's taken such a position that ultimately hurts region-wide transit use.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

How long has Pachal been councillor for CoL? His “LRT is the only way to go” BS has been spitting from his mouth since Diane Watts brought up her idea of the Surrey LRT—and passed on to Hepner. Now I’m afraid of Tom Gill carrying Hepner’s torch the same way she carried Watts’.

He reminds me of one of those chemtrail conspiracy “theorists” who have complete lack of understanding of how the physics and costs of spraying undisclosed chemicals make the execution really expensive and impractical, while hand-waving the fallacies to “support” their excuses.

I know Nathan personally and he's a good guy. He just wants RT for Langley. Right now it looks like it will be LRT, but if that changes to Skytrain, he'll be completely onboard.

[logicbomb]

Work on the 105 Ave connector is well underway. However the entire thing is ridiculous. The City of Surrey is not even being transparent about the plans. My person inside did confirm there will be a lot of 30kph speed limits in sections.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

I know Nathan personally and he's a good guy. He just wants RT for Langley. Right now it looks like it will be LRT, but if that changes to Skytrain, he'll be completely onboard.

I’m sorry, but isn’t this somewhat nonsensical?

The only reason “LRT” is the front runner choice is because of politicians (not Translink or any transit related professionals)

So isn’t this guy a politician in the area?

As in he is one of the few who seem to actually have the power to choose the technology?

So then why would he just “accept” LRT as if he has no voice?

Seems like an uneducated and lazy move to simply support any form of RT.

Technically a roller coaster is RT, would he suppprt that too?

Seriously. At least choose a technology to support.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I’m sorry, but isn’t this somewhat nonsensical?

The only reason “LRT” is the front runner choice is because of politicians (not Translink or any transit related professionals)

So isn’t this guy a politician in the area?

As in he is one of the few who seem to actually have the power to choose the technology?

So then why would he just “accept” LRT as if he has no voice?

Seems like an uneducated and lazy move to simply support any form of RT.

Technically a roller coaster is RT, would he suppprt that too?

Seriously. At least choose a technology to support.

Pandering to Surrey? Your guess is as good as mine.

It’s not like Langley is bound to Surrey’s will. It has a mind of its own. It’s more to “prevent” Surrey from throwing a tantrum because it won’t get what it wants. It’s the equivalent of feeding your fat child with ice cream daily so that he doesn’t whine about eating broccoli.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Pandering to Surrey? Your guess is as good as mine.

It’s not like Langley is bound to Surrey’s will. It has a mind of its own. It’s more to “prevent” Surrey from throwing a tantrum because it won’t get what it wants. It’s the equivalent of feeding your fat child with ice cream daily so that he doesn’t whine about eating broccoli.

It's also the fact that Skytrain to Langley will likely cost $1 Billion more than LRT will. More money may mean waiting longer for it to be built. Would you rather have an LRT sooner or an ideal Skytrain line 10 years later.

This is my sense of why LRT is being tentatively supported by Langley. I can understand where they are coming from. Is it the right decision? Personally, I don't think so. I think a lot of the improvements that an LRT will require will make the cost difference between the two much smaller. I also think the long term efficiency gains for Skytrain are worth it.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

It's also the fact that Skytrain to Langley will likely cost $1 Billion more than LRT will. More money may mean waiting longer for it to be built. Would you rather have an LRT sooner or an ideal Skytrain line 10 years later.

This is my sense of why LRT is being tentatively supported by Langley. I can understand where they are coming from. Is it the right decision? Personally, I don't think so. I think a lot of the improvements that an LRT will require will make the cost difference between the two much smaller. I also think the long term efficiency gains for Skytrain are worth it.

I highly, highly, highly doubt Skytrain to Langley along Fraser Highway would be anywhere near a billion dollars more expensive. Given the relatively few stations along the route, the fact that no tunneled sections would be involved, and the fact that the LRT still requires an elevated segment in Langley City I would be surprised if Skytrain was more than 200 million dollars more expensive.

Last time I checked the 10 KM LRT segment in Surrey is 1.64 billion dollars, which is more than the 1.4 billion dollar Evergreen Line... Although inflation has increased the cost somewhat, this is largely balanced with the fact that the Evergreen Line was a kilometer longer and involved a 2KM long tunnel.

So I have no idea where these gross over estimates of the cost of Skytrain keep coming from...

[nname]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

So I have no idea where these gross over estimates of the cost of Skytrain keep coming from...

You know exactly where it coming from. Like.. some blogger whose name starts with a 'z'...

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

It's also the fact that Skytrain to Langley will likely cost $1 Billion more than LRT will. More money may mean waiting longer for it to be built. Would you rather have an LRT sooner or an ideal Skytrain line 10 years later.

This is my sense of why LRT is being tentatively supported by Langley. I can understand where they are coming from. Is it the right decision? Personally, I don't think so. I think a lot of the improvements that an LRT will require will make the cost difference between the two much smaller. I also think the long term efficiency gains for Skytrain are worth it.

Fraser Hwy has recently been made into 4 lanes after decades of suffering through 2 lanes. Now they want to run 2 tracks down the middle? Pleasseeee... Run buses... they are cheaper if Skytrain is not in the works yet.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

It's also the fact that Skytrain to Langley will likely cost $1 Billion more than LRT will. More money may mean waiting longer for it to be built. Would you rather have an LRT sooner or an ideal Skytrain line 10 years later.

Do we need to regurgitate the term "operating costs" again? The extension from King George to Langley Central will not only be one of the cheapest extensions to build due to it ALL being elevated with very few stations, but it will also be one of the least disturbing construction projects since it's not splitting up neighbourhoods.

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Fraser Hwy has recently been made into 4 lanes after decades of suffering through 2 lanes. Now they want to run 2 tracks down the middle? Pleasseeee... Run buses... they are cheaper if Skytrain is not in the works yet.

I will be very interested to see how the new B-line bus will work from KG to Langley Central.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by scryer

Do we need to regurgitate the term "operating costs" again? The extension from King George to Langley Central will not only be one of the cheapest extensions to build due to it ALL being elevated with very few stations, but it will also be one of the least disturbing construction projects since it's not splitting up neighbourhoods.

A) Pretty sure aroundtheworld was playing devil's advocate there.

B) Whether they are or not, I do believe that you've just restarted the circlejerk.

[YVR Bruce]

I read today that Doug McCallum is planning to recapture Surrey council, putting a shift to Skytrain on his agenda. Perhaps something for this thread to review. And to climb aboard for those in favour...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by YVR Bruce

I read today that Doug McCallum is planning to recapture Surrey council, putting a shift to Skytrain on his agenda. Perhaps something for this thread to review. And to climb aboard for those in favour...

Before we start breaking out the champagne, note that McCallum also wants to pull out of TransLink. He wants SkyTrain to Langley... by splitting from the group that'll fund, build and operate it?

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by YVR Bruce

I read today that Doug McCallum is planning to recapture Surrey council, putting a shift to Skytrain on his agenda. Perhaps something for this thread to review. And to climb aboard for those in favour...

Excellent!! I know who I am voting for. Doug will give the voters a very clear choice of what they want. If they say NO to Doug and Yes to LRT, who am I to bash the voters. I hope this civic election in Surrey is mainly focused on LRT while other issues take a back seat. Let the chips fall where they fall.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Before we start breaking out the champagne, note that McCallum also wants to pull out of TransLink. He wants SkyTrain to Langley... by splitting from the group that'll fund, build and operate it?

You've misread that. 'Proudly Surrey' is the party that wants Surrey to pull out of TransLink. McCallum isn't running with Proudly Surrey; he is forming his own party.

[Metro-One]

Yes, he wants to cancel the L-Line LRT and run more frequent buses instead, and focus on Skytrain down Fraser.

Finally some sanity!

Hope he has a chance!

[nname]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yes, he wants to cancel the L-Line LRT and run more frequent buses instead, and focus on Skytrain down Fraser.

Finally some sanity!

Hope he has a chance!

"Cancel" is a strong word to use though. Maybe "Replace LRT with extensive B-Line (or BRT) system that connects South Surrey to Surrey Central without transfer"?

[p_xavier]

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-doug-mccallum-reelection-lrt-cancellation

That would be perfect.

[Metro-One]

Well yes, it isn’t a cancellation without an alternative plan in mind. That message needs to be hammered home.