Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[ClaytonA]

Post #1650 Crow eaten;

https://web.archive.org/web/201806260002...-of-vancouver-and-canadian-national.html

...

improving the existing Thornton Rail Tunnel ventilation system so that trains can pass through the tunnel more frequently;
improving the rail corridor by building 5.5 kilometres of track adjacent to the existing double-tracked corridor;
designing and raising Douglas Road so it crosses over the existing Canadian National railway l corridor;
building the Centennial Road overpass, a 600 metre-long, two-lane elevated viaduct structure;
extending the existing two-lane Waterfront Road by 600 metres;
realigning 350 metres of Commissioner Street; and
building 9.4 kilometres of new siding track and reconfiguring train switching operations within the Canadian Pacific railway corridor, along the south shore of Burrard Inlet in the Cities of Vancouver and Burnaby.

...

[ClaytonA]

Table 4 from the TSPR Summary;

Station------------ Fall 2016 Boardings--------Fall 2017 Boardings-----Percent Change
_____________________________________________________________
Waterfront --------4,900 -----------------------4,630 -------------------__-5%
Moody Centre -------990 -----------------------1,070 -------------------___8%
Coquitlam Central -1,190 ----------------------1,100 -------------------__-7%
Port Coquitlam -----1,200 ----------------------1,020 ------------------__-15%
Pitt Meadows --------400 -------------------------400 --------------------__0%
Maple Meadows ------610 ------------------------640 -------------------___5%
Port Haney -----------460 ------------------------490 ----------------------_5%
Mission City ----------460 ------------------------540 ---------------------_17%
Overall ------------10,210 ----------------------9,890 --------------------__-3%

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

:
:
designing and raising Douglas Road so it crosses over the existing Canadian National railway l corridor;
:
:

That only leaves Venables, Union, Slocan, Kaslo, Renfrew, Rupert, Boundary Road and Gilmore to go!

[forouhar]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

That only leaves Venables, Union, Slocan, Kaslo, Renfrew, Rupert, Boundary Road and Gilmore to go!

None of those crossings are critical for staging trains for the north shore/main yard.

Caribou Road is another crossing that is a thorn in CN's side.

[Trainguy]

My condolences to the family who lost a teenager last night in the Cresent Beach area, but I have to say that when you play with danger, you often get bit. Trespassing on railway property, especially a very active rail line, can be tragic. Lots of rumors and speculation on what happened, but it doesn't change the fact that these types of tragedies will continue to occur until people wake up and stop crossing the tracks illegally. More enforcement is needed and much stiffer fines like $500 for a first time offence.

[swimmer_spe]

With the cancellation of Greyhound between Sudbury ON and Vancouver BC, could we see a resurgence of passenger rail?


Hear me out.

First off, now you have everywhere basically East/North of Toronto not having any alternative to flying.

As I see it, Via could actually do well now, and if they do it right, they could have a resurgence that we see along the Corridor.


If I were them, here is what I would do.


1) Cut the Canadian in 2, with the split in Winnipeg. This could fix the chronically late trains.

2) Reinstate The Dominion. Basically, have it in 2 sections as well. Both cut in Winnipeg. The part through Ontario could go through Thunder Bay and SSM before heading south in Sudbury.

3) have a train run between Calgary and Edmonton. The tracks are there, and that route is heaveily used, so adding a train would likely work well. I know the rails are in bad shape, but if the Federal government are going to throw money aroudn for rail transit, the can and should thow money at things like this.

This would do well for all Canadians trying to travel east of Toronto. This would also make Winnipeg a natural destination.

I would be nice to hear that effective November 1 2018, Via has new routes.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

With the cancellation of Greyhound between Sudbury ON and Vancouver BC, could we see a resurgence of passenger rail?


Hear me out.

First off, now you have everywhere basically East/North of Toronto not having any alternative to flying.

As I see it, Via could actually do well now, and if they do it right, they could have a resurgence that we see along the Corridor.


If I were them, here is what I would do.


1) Cut the Canadian in 2, with the split in Winnipeg. This could fix the chronically late trains.

2) Reinstate The Dominion. Basically, have it in 2 sections as well. Both cut in Winnipeg. The part through Ontario could go through Thunder Bay and SSM before heading south in Sudbury.

3) have a train run between Calgary and Edmonton. The tracks are there, and that route is heaveily used, so adding a train would likely work well. I know the rails are in bad shape, but if the Federal government are going to throw money aroudn for rail transit, the can and should thow money at things like this.

This would do well for all Canadians trying to travel east of Toronto. This would also make Winnipeg a natural destination.

I would be nice to hear that effective November 1 2018, Via has new routes.

improving things in Western Canada???????? you must not know how the federal government works...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

improving things in Western Canada???????? you must not know how the federal government works...

It doesn't have to stay that way. Remember, they did win seats out there in the hinterlands, and there is an election coming.

[GlassCity]

Rail is super inflexible and very costly to implement. I just don't see the demand there to warrant that. A government-run bus service would probably make more sense.

[madog222]

We will see a privately owned and operated HSR line Calgary to Edmonton before we see any Via expansion west of Toronto.


Just fun I looked up prices for Vancouver to Edmonton by plane, train, and a̶u̶t̶o̶m̶o̶b̶i̶l̶e̶ bus on an arbitrary date, prices are lowest available.

Vancouver to Edmonton, July 26th:

Greyhound $99 and 16 hours, 1 transfer, or save $9 and add 6 hours.
Via Rail, no service on the 26th , for the 27th: $208 and 1 day, 3 hours.
Air Canada $160 and 1 hour, 30min.
Flair Air $50 and 1 hour, 40min, or leave from Abbotsford and pay only $9 including taxes and fees!

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by madog222

We will see a privately owned and operated HSR line Calgary to Edmonton before we see any Via expansion west of Toronto.


Just fun I looked up prices for Vancouver to Edmonton by plane, train, and a̶u̶t̶o̶m̶o̶b̶i̶l̶e̶ bus on an arbitrary date, prices are lowest available.

Vancouver to Edmonton, July 26th:

Greyhound $99 and 16 hours, 1 transfer, or save $9 and add 6 hours.
Via Rail, no service on the 26th , for the 27th: $208 and 1 day, 3 hours.
Air Canada $160 and 1 hour, 30min.
Flair Air $50 and 1 hour, 40min, or leave from Abbotsford and pay only $9 including taxes and fees!

Canada will never see true HSR like in Japan and other countries because the population just isn't there and the country is too spread out. The Ontario HSR is just a pipe-dream that will never materialize. Great for trying to buy votes though.

Any operator replacing GH will charge more because they are in it to make money and not lose it.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Canada will never see true HSR like in Japan and other countries because the population just isn't there and the country is too spread out. The Ontario HSR is just a pipe-dream that will never materialize. Great for trying to buy votes though.

How does the HSR in Russia get away with this since most of its major cities are further from each other relative to Western European cities? (This doesn’t include Moscow to St. Petersburg.)

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

How does the HSR in Russia get away with this since most of its major cities are further from each other relative to Western European cities? (This doesn’t include Moscow to St. Petersburg.)

Less densely populated, too. I figure it's the same way they got a summer town to host the Winter Games: Putin always gets his way.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Less densely populated, too. I figure it's the same way they got a summer town to host the Winter Games: Putin always gets his way.

From what I can see all the current HSR in Russia is west of the Urals on the eastern european plain and 70% of the population live there. Imagine if the prairies had a population of 50 million. HSR would be easily feasible if that was the case.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by bardak

From what I can see all the current HSR in Russia is west of the Urals on the eastern european plain and 70% of the population live there. Imagine if the prairies had a population of 50 million. HSR would be easily feasible if that was the case.

Say if I want to go to Saint Petersburg to Krasnodar Krai, both of which have a population of over five million. It takes 3 hr 30' to get to Moscow from St Petersburg, which is not bad. However, from Moscow to Krasnodar takes 18 hr 43'; that’s including eight stops along the way. In other words, it’ll take a full day to get to Krasnodar from St Petersburg.

Oddly enough, driving takes the same amount of time as taking the train, although it doesn’t take affect of the terrible Russian roads—and poorly made vehicles that have poor fuel economies, requiring more fuel stoppage—and toll highways. The distance between these two cities is 2,000 km. For perspective, that’s equivalent of driving from Vancouver to Brandon, Manitoba.

I don’t think it’s a good idea of putting HSR from Vancouver to a city less than 50,000 people.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by bardak

From what I can see all the current HSR in Russia is west of the Urals on the eastern european plain and 70% of the population live there. Imagine if the prairies had a population of 50 million. HSR would be easily feasible if that was the case.

Densely populated; the upcoming Moscow-Kazan line, for example, travels 772km from Moscow through three cities the size of Edmonton and one the size of Victoria. IMO, that's a really shite route for a Shinkansen.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Densely populated; the upcoming Moscow-Kazan line, for example, travels 772km from Moscow through three cities the size of Edmonton and one the size of Victoria. IMO, that's a really shite route for a Shinkansen.

The answer to that is the Laurential Corridor, rather than the prairies

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

The answer to that is the Laurential Corridor, rather than the prairies

Not sure if we're on the same page here - Russia's Laurentian Corridor (Moscow-St Petersburg) already has HSR. The steppes/prairies are mostly a series of "small" towns that'd be hard to connect by one train line.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Not sure if we're on the same page here - Russia's Laurentian Corridor (Moscow-St Petersburg) already has HSR. The steppes/prairies are mostly a series of "small" towns that'd be hard to connect by one train line.

https://brendandawe.carto.com/viz/80b9d9c2-d111-11e5-92d5-0ef7f98ade21/public_map

true, but thanks to history a large proportion of those smaller and larger urban areas are on one of 3 rail lines

The Canadian Pacific Mainline (thousands of built up area inhabitants 2016)
- Winnipeg (712)
- Portage la Prairie (13)
- Brandon (48)
- Regina (215)
- Moose Jaw (33)
- Swift Current (16)
- Medicine Hat (63)
- Brooks (14)
- Calgary (1,238)
- Cochrane (25)
- Canmore (12)

The Calgary & Edmonton Railway

- Calgary (1,238)
- Airdrie (61)
- Red Deer (100)
- Lacombe (12)
- Wetaskiwin (12)
- Leduc (30)
- Edmonton (1,063)

the Grand Trunk Pacific (CN Mainline)

- Stoney Plain (16)
- Spruce Grove (36)
- Edmonton (1,063)
- Saskatoon (245)
- Portage la Prairie (13)
- Winnipeg (712)


The only populated places with more than 10,000 inhabitants outside those three routes are

- Lethbridge (88)
- Fort McMurray (66)
- Grande Prarie (62)
- Prince Albert (35)
- Lloydminster (31)
- Okotoks (29)
- Camrose (18)
- Sylvan Lake (15)
- North Battleford (14)
- Thompson (13)
- Yorkton (16)
- Steinbach (15)
- Winkler (14)
- High River (13)
- Estevan (11)
- Weyburn (10)

Many of the above are along the Canadian Northern Mainline, or are within the orbit of larger cities.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

true, but thanks to history a large proportion of those smaller and larger urban areas are on one of 3 rail lines

The Canadian Pacific Mainline (thousands of built up area inhabitants 2016)

The CP line serves a lot of people because the rail line came first and the cities grew up around it. That's not the case in Asia.