Portland Diamond Project (MLB) | Proposed

[pylon]

PdX Farr, "San Diego has their whole outfield open and accessible on non games days turning it into a community park. All are busy and have foot traffic on non game days."

do everything to make that field as flexible as possible (inc. concerts). could qualify for that new neighborhood's park space requirement. maybe rethink the waterfront pedestrian footpath to allow for more bandwidth. offices and housing still built, but now with the stadium as a major attractor, inc. for the new development across the way at omsi. a pier at the stadium to allow shuttle boats to bring in/out people. put the james beard public market in there. etc.

[eric cantona]

Originally Posted by pylon

PdX Farr, "San Diego has their whole outfield open and accessible on non games days turning it into a community park.

please back this up with some verifiable citations.

I know that there is a "park" just outside center field, behind some weird dark monolithic structure. It's not free on game days, and on off days it's where people take their dogs to poop. it also has serious sightline limitations to actually be able to see the game being played.

I find it terribly unlikely that the whole outfield is ever opened up to the public. there's no freaking way that the team and the groundskeeper would allow the unwashed masses out onto that piece of grass. that shit is not cheap to install or to maintain. have you seen what humans are capable of doing?

[MarkDaMan]

Originally Posted by eric cantona

please back this up with some verifiable citations.

I know that there is a "park" just outside center field, behind some weird dark monolithic structure. It's not free on game days, and on off days it's where people take their dogs to poop. it also has serious sightline limitations to actually be able to see the game being played.

I find it terribly unlikely that the whole outfield is ever opened up to the public. there's no freaking way that the team and the groundskeeper would allow the unwashed masses out onto that piece of grass. that shit is not cheap to install or to maintain. have you seen what humans are capable of doing?

This is what the previous poster was referencing which I think you are too, which is an outer outfield, not the actually game outfield. https://www.petcoparkinsider.com/park-at-the-park

The Park at the Park is a park in the Park
Located outside the outfield wall but inside the park gates (so yes you will need a ticket on game days), the Park at the Park is approximately 2.7 acre park. The Park at the Park contains a mini little league infield diamond, trees, a statue of Tony Gwynn, and lots of area to sprawl out to picnic and play. Bring a blanket!

[AcmeGreg]

Seriously? A ballpark requiring acres of event parking is not exactly what we want or need in this location.

[Derek]

^Petco Park has virtually zero parking. There was a huge parking lot next door to it for a few years that’s finally being redeveloped in to a large mixed use project. There are a couple surface lots remaining but they won’t be there much longer. I don’t think that’s something we’d have to worry about here (save for a large parking garage which is what Petco uses).


This is all just wishful thinking anways. I think many of us are just concerned about how much longer this land will remain undeveloped, we’d rather see a ballpark than nothing. I personally still prefer the PPS location.

[eric cantona]

Originally Posted by Derek

^Petco Park has virtually zero parking.

other than two surface lots: Tailgate parking (4 city blocks) and the Lexus Premier lot (2 city blocks)?

other than those there's the 8-story Padre's parking garage at 11th and J.

or the 6-story public garage just east of the Lexus lot.

or the 7-story garage across 7th (Tony Gwynn Dr) from the stadium.

other than that, you are correct - virtually nothing.

[eric cantona]

if it isn't obvious, I think the notion of putting a stadium at South Waterfront is a horrible idea.

the Blanchard (PPS) site is the most ideal, on the face of it. it has a fair amount of existing parking already (Rose Quarter), plenty of transit options, and decent freeway access. it's either that, or in the suburbs.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by eric cantona

other than two surface lots: Tailgate parking (4 city blocks) and the Lexus Premier lot (2 city blocks)?

other than those there's the 8-story Padre's parking garage at 11th and J.

or the 6-story public garage just east of the Lexus lot.

or the 7-story garage across 7th (Tony Gwynn Dr) from the stadium.

other than that, you are correct - virtually nothing.

Yes, I mentioned parking garages. The lots currently surrounding Petco have been there for nearly a decade and are being developed or are about to be. My point was that wouldn’t be an issue in the South Waterfront area as there is hardly any land available for large swaths of surface lots.

You are right though, there wouldn’t be much, if any, room for parking garages. They’d have to build parking underneath the stadium.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by PdX Farr

Valid points, but I am not sure what stadiums you are referencing that are new and dead around the ball parks?

Moda Center.

It's basketball, not baseball, but the same thing applies. Have you ever been to the Rose Quarter when there isn't a game or an event? It's deader than dead.

If you put a dead space like that between SOWA and Riverplace, you permanently divide the two rather than bridging them together.

Sure, I'd rather see a baseball stadium there than see the land sit vacant, but I'd rather see housing there than a stadium.

[MarkDaMan]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

Moda Center.

It's basketball, not baseball, but the same thing applies. Have you ever been to the Rose Quarter when there isn't a game or an event? It's deader than dead.

If you put a dead space like that between SOWA and Riverplace, you permanently divide the two rather than bridging them together.

Sure, I'd rather see a baseball stadium there than see the land sit vacant, but I'd rather see housing there than a stadium.

MLB plays double the amount of games as the NBA so there would be 81 home games in baseball compared to 41 home games in basketball (not counting playoffs). Also, in 2017 there was an average of around 30,000 people in attendance per game in the MLB vs. around 18,000 people in attendance per game in the NBA during their 2017-18 season.

My point is, the frequency of games and average number in attendance allows neighborhoods around an MLB stadium to build on the larger economy of the sport. If a stadium is built correctly, it will function more like Providence Park than the Moda Center. I could see a design that "carves" out space along Moody to have food truck type restaurants that open onto the sidewalk keeping that area lively, perhaps even double sided spaces so they can also serve the concourse on event days.

I'm not sure why the OMSI site isn't being talked about, I think that neighborhood could be an interesting fit for MLB.

That said, I also wouldn't mind the PPS HQ site. I'm highly opposed to the Port of Portland terminal since there are not ANY close by mass transportation options.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by MarkDaMan

I'm not sure why the OMSI site isn't being talked about, I think that neighborhood could be an interesting fit for MLB.

That said, I also wouldn't mind the PPS HQ site. I'm highly opposed to the Port of Portland terminal since there are not ANY close by mass transportation options.

I agree completely.

[Derek]

I mean there’s nothing around the Moda Center, it’s not really a fair comparison.

[Tykendo]

Coors Field in Denver was the catalyst for a whole neighborhood that flourishes 365 days a year. With an assortment of restaurants, and pubs that get plenty of business even in the offseason. And Coors Field is as beautiful today, as it was when it was new. Incredible for that part of the city ,LODO, that was a bloody hell zone, and skid row before it was built.

[PdX Farr]

Originally Posted by eric cantona

please back this up with some verifiable citations.

LMGTFY

Originally Posted by AcmeGreg

Seriously? A ballpark requiring acres of event parking is not exactly what we want or need in this location.

How much parking is located at Providence Park? People will use the convenient option and in this situation it will be mass transit and not parking.

Originally Posted by 2oh1

Moda Center.

It's basketball, not baseball, but the same thing applies.

So many things wrong with this. First, what part of new don't you understand? Moda was built in 1995. By my estimation that is 23 years OLD. Second, we are talking baseball parks, not basketball arenas. Not even the same stratosphere.

[johnliu]

Originally Posted by PdX Farr

LMGTFY


How much parking is located at Providence Park? People will use the convenient option and in this situation it will be mass transit and not parking.


So many things wrong with this. First, what part of new don't you understand? Moda was built in 1995. By my estimation that is 23 years OLD. Second, we are talking baseball parks, not basketball arenas. Not even the same stratosphere.

Not clear why it matters what game is played inside. And won't the new stadium eventually be 23 years OLD?

[PdX Farr]

Originally Posted by johnliu

Not clear why it matters what game is played inside. And won't the new stadium eventually be 23 years OLD?

You need to look at the modern day baseball stadium and how they fit them into the downtowns and make them destinations year round. It’s so much different than a basketball/hockey arena. They are usually open air and flow into the city/streets around. Plus as a poster already mentioned, they host twice as many games. 81 for baseball versus 41 for basketball.

[pylon]

i think the PPS locale is the better spot when you think in the car-oriented, surface lot tradition.

PDX could maybe take an approach using something light and low-lying, vs tall and bulky monolith, that would be very mass-transit/ped/bike-oriented.
perhaps using only an airport-like drop-off/pick-up area for taxis, soccer moms, ubers, buses, etc.

calatrava's design for the athens olympic stadium...


Estadio ‘Das Dunas Arena’ terminado...

[AdamUrbanist]

Or the other possibility I haven’t heard mentioned is gateway. It might not be the first site that jumps to mind, but it is a transit-accessible area with large landholders in need of an anchor institution (or two). There was a generation of ballparks (Baltimore, Detroit, San Francisco) that we’re all about taking a leap of faith and investing in a run down late 19th century neighborhood. I think it would be interesting to see a similar concept that was about revitalizing and urbanizing a late 20th century district.

[RED_PDXer]

Originally Posted by AdamUrbanist

Or the other possibility I haven’t heard mentioned is gateway. It might not be the first site that jumps to mind, but it is a transit-accessible area with large landholders in need of an anchor institution (or two). There was a generation of ballparks (Baltimore, Detroit, San Francisco) that we’re all about taking a leap of faith and investing in a run down late 19th century neighborhood. I think it would be interesting to see a similar concept that was about revitalizing and urbanizing a late 20th century district.

I love this idea! Kinda far for the Hillsboro side of town, but at least it's accessible by transit and freeway. If they were to build a large parking garage (I think they'd need at least 4,000 spaces), it could double as park-and-ride for transit.

[tworivers]

I have a hard time imagining a stadium on the Zidell land working very well. I'm also not ready to say goodbye to those beautiful renderings -- would much rather see that riverfront land become home to a collection of architecturally compelling buildings that ultimately complete the smaller-scale urban fabric from downtown south. That whole area is already broken up enough by the mess of freeway; it's hard to see how a stadium right there would help to knit things together.

One thing I'd be interested in seeing is the average MLB stadium footprint superimposed over the various sites under consideration.

The PPS/Broadway site seems like the best option to me for all the obvious reasons. Gateway is also compelling, especially if they deliver on all the promised housing units.