Tsawwassen First Nation Updates

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by jhausner

I still think they could have made it look better and built some underground or parkade style parking to use up less overall land.

The thing is, there's currently SO much land there, why would they waste the money to build parkades? That would cost a lot more than surface parking. In the future, when they need the land for something else, they can look at building parkades.

Ron.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

The thing is, there's currently SO much land there, why would they waste the money to build parkades? That would cost a lot more than surface parking. In the future, when they need the land for something else, they can look at building parkades.

Ron.

Absolutely and that's why they did it.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jhausner

So I guess what I'm saying is I agree from a regional standpoint that it looks bad and seems counter to urban sprawl, but I don't think we can fault TFN for not saying "Oh ok well we won't build anything because we're so far away from Vancouver core."

That and according to Metro Vancouver's own livable region strategy, the Tsawwassen/South Delta area is supposed to increase in population to near 60,000 or slightly more people in the next 20 years. That's not a small number given the constrained developable land in the area due to ALR accounting for 80% of the land.

That's fine, but I would argue they did a poor job of "reading the room", and now they've overbuilt a mall that isn't living up to expectations. They tried to build a destination mall that nobody really wanted to drive to.

[officedweller]

Here's Grandview Heights' strip malls at the same scale as Tsawwassen Mills/Commons from Bing maps:


https://www.bing.com/maps?q=strawberry+hills+surrey+bc&FORM=HDRSC4

[idunno]

^^ Wow, that is quite something!

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I can just leave some cold cuts on the table for a week or so and put em in an onion bun with some cheese wiz if you'd like.

Wheres the curly fries though

Doesn't Grandview Heights also have a small housing component to it? The few times I've been there, it's a lot more "smaller" feeling walking/driving around.

[officedweller]

Yeah, the area around Thrifty Foods has residential above retail.
The parts around Wal-Mart do not as far as I know.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Here's Grandview Heights' strip malls at the same scale as Tsawwassen Mills/Commons from Bing maps:


https://www.bing.com/maps?q=strawberry+hills+surrey+bc&FORM=HDRSC4

Holy fuck. Both are depressing to look at. Looks like something from Ontario.

[osirisboy]

Grandview corners and Morgan crossing is nothing like tsawassen. The south side of 24th could've been done better. They do have parking underground but they should've put residential above Walmart etc

[Tetsuo]

Not to mention seeing as how high voltage power lines cut across the site, not much leeway in use of space

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by flipper316

Holy fuck. Both are depressing to look at. Looks like something from Ontario.

You may want to go to Grandview and Morgan Crossing and actually look with your own eyes before you call it depressing from a 30,000 foot high aerial photo. Tsawwassen Mills is definitely a giant mall with huge parking lot in the middle of effectively nowhere.

But Grandview/Morgan is building quite dense, is very walkable, and other than a handful of big-box stores whose parking lots are under giant regional power distribution lines so can't build anything else, it is pretty good for the area. It is also not a strip mall by classification. It's also not built like a typical strip mall in that the retail locations, other than big-box, all front the main streets and parking is either in the back or underground.

Remember that area is not far from the US/Canada border, we're not talking an urban core here but they've done a pretty good job of density. It feels far more urban out in Morgan Crossing than many areas of Surrey Central, I think they've done a pretty good job for where the area is located.

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by jhausner

You may want to go to Grandview and Morgan Crossing and actually look with your own eyes before you call it depressing from a 30,000 foot high aerial photo. Tsawwassen Mills is definitely a giant mall with huge parking lot in the middle of effectively nowhere.

But Grandview/Morgan is building quite dense, is very walkable, and other than a handful of big-box stores whose parking lots are under giant regional power distribution lines so can't build anything else, it is pretty good for the area. It is also not a strip mall by classification. It's also not built like a typical strip mall in that the retail locations, other than big-box, all front the main streets and parking is either in the back or underground.

Remember that area is not far from the US/Canada border, we're not talking an urban core here but they've done a pretty good job of density. It feels far more urban out in Morgan Crossing than many areas of Surrey Central, I think they've done a pretty good job for where the area is located.

Greatly put !

If you want to see something like this done poorly Ontario style, look at market crossing in Burnaby or Queensborough Landing. Morgan Crossing is x10 better.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

Greatly put !

If you want to see something like this done poorly Ontario style, look at market crossing in Burnaby or Queensborough Landing. Morgan Crossing is x10 better.

I would agree. The names of all of them are terrible though.

[GlassCity]

Morgan Crossing is still brutally detached from the primary street grid and therefore also sucks. One fake high street-feeling strip, a la Park Royal, does not urbanity make.

[osirisboy]

Why is it fake?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Why is it fake?

Because Morgan Crossing is obviously a master planned community? I just looked at in street view and it didn't look too bad to me. Sure it's not going to be a cultural hub but it's not meant to be. As has been already stated...

Originally Posted by jhausner

But Grandview/Morgan is building quite dense, is very walkable, and other than a handful of big-box stores whose parking lots are under giant regional power distribution lines so can't build anything else, it is pretty good for the area. It is also not a strip mall by classification. It's also not built like a typical strip mall in that the retail locations, other than big-box, all front the main streets and parking is either in the back or underground.

[Metro-One]

Neither are "ideal" but Tsawwassen Mills is 10X worse. It is the classic big mall with endless surface parking in the middle of farmland. Terrible.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Neither are "ideal" but Tsawwassen Mills is 10X worse. It is the classic big mall with endless surface parking in the middle of farmland. Terrible.

Exactly. I don't have an issue with them building retail in the area as people in Tsawassen / Ladner / etc need to shop too. I think the biggest complaint on here has been about the form of it - a single story sprawling mall with 'endless surface parking'.

Maybe once they finish the build out it won't be as terrible. From the first post:

According to a draft of the neighbourhood plan, 1,684 residential units would be built, including detached homes (50 per cent), townhouses (35 per cent) and apartments (15 per cent). Once completed, they would increase the population on the reserve by 4,381 people

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Why is it fake?

Because it's like a quarter-block long, but more importantly because there's a huge surface parking lot right behind it. It's a high-street as a manufactured suburban destination by one developer, not as organic growth just down the street on the White Rock boardwalk, or Johnson Road. It's also only walkable once you're in it - otherwise you have to go out of your way as a pedestrian to get to it. Not like natural commercial strips which typically grow on existing major thoroughfares and connect far beyond mall access roads.

I'm not saying it's not better than Tsawwassen Mills. Just the inclusion of housing is a huge difference. But I'd still much rather not be celebrating that type of development.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Because it's like a quarter-block long, but more importantly because there's a huge surface parking lot right behind it. It's a high-street as a manufactured suburban destination by one developer, not as organic growth just down the street on the White Rock boardwalk, or Johnson Road. It's also only walkable once you're in it - otherwise you have to go out of your way as a pedestrian to get to it. Not like natural commercial strips which typically grow on existing major thoroughfares and connect far beyond mall access roads.

I'm not saying it's not better than Tsawwassen Mills. Just the inclusion of housing is a huge difference. But I'd still much rather not be celebrating that type of development.

I don't see those reasons as making something fake. It's just different