Calgary Construction XXVI

[milomilo]

Real estate is like any other investment it’s a long haul investment you can’t just pick 10 years and say that 10 years was bad good therefore real estate is a bad good investment. it’s a ridiculous argument.

People have been more than willing to say that just because they have done well throughout the last 10 years with the housing market, anyone renting now must be an idiot or poor. So why is OK for the homeowners to cherrypick, but not for renters to point out the opposite?

[Tobyoby]

Originally Posted by Northern

Actually you couldn’t be more wrong. Real estate prices in Calgary have been flat mainly since 2014, but anyone who bought a house before that is doing OK. Those DJI bought before 2007 are doing great. Also bought before 2002 are doing even better than great. And Calgary.’s not the only city like this there so he’s all over North America were real estate has gone up very well over the years. I think you’re confusing Calgary with Flint Michigan.

You don't need to be talking about Flint when talking about real estate not going up much over a long period of time. Calgary is an anomaly, same for a few other places like Vancouver and Toronto. Real Estate in most cities would go up 10-20% over a 10 year period. Calgary had that crazy boom period 2002-2007 where prices doubled, but that's not normal anywhere else.

[Tobyoby]

Exactly.

Originally Posted by milomilo

People have been more than willing to say that just because they have done well throughout the last 10 years with the housing market, anyone renting now must be an idiot or poor. So why is OK for the homeowners to cherrypick, but not for renters to point out the opposite?

[Northern]

I don’t mean to sound snotty, but it seems like you didn’t read all of the posts. The whole point was that investing in a house isn’t as simple as a chart that picks out 10 years. There are many other factors (that have already been mentioned) that aren’t on the chart.
I wouldn’t say that people who rent are idiots, but most of people who rent could be considered poor, as most would prefer to buy if they could.

Originally Posted by milomilo

People have been more than willing to say that just because they have done well throughout the last 10 years with the housing market, anyone renting now must be an idiot or poor. So why is OK for the homeowners to cherrypick, but not for renters to point out the opposite?

[Tobyoby]

Nm

[s211]

Originally Posted by Tobyoby

And how is that any different than selling your home and paying capital gains?

There are no capital gains on primary residences, at least in Canada.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Northern

I don’t mean to sound snotty, but it seems like you didn’t read all of the posts. The whole point was that investing in a house isn’t as simple as a chart that picks out 10 years. There are many other factors (that have already been mentioned) that aren’t on the chart.
I wouldn’t say that people who rent are idiots, but most of people who rent could be considered poor, as most would prefer to buy if they could.

I have read all the posts, but you must not have as that is not the 'whole point'. This discussion has gone back a few pages and has been me and others pointing out that owning a house is not always the best option (ie a reasonable position), and others implying or outright saying that the only reason you would rent is if you were poor or stupid. When I posted that I could afford to buy, but chose not to, I was treated as if I was lying.

This is pretty irritating for people such as myself, as it is essentially the boomer generation having lucked out and bought houses while they were cheap and now sit on a lot of paper money telling their children how smart they were at making money when it was just dumb luck. However, partially because of their actions pumping up the housing market, houses are significantly more expensive now compared to renting. They can't appreciate that the game has changed and what may have made sense financially 20 years ago may not make sense now.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by s211

There are no capital gains on primary residences, at least in Canada.

That's correct, if you are only selling the home you live in, you won't pay any tax. It's only thing that makes buying property a good investment. If you pump all of your extra money into stocks and bonds, you could 'potentially' make a lot of money but you have to pay tax on that when you go to use it. In other words your 20% over 10 years gain on a house is about the same as a 40% over 10 years for stocks. 40% over 10 years is not an typical gain from stocks and bonds.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I have read all the posts, but you must not have as that is not the 'whole point'. This discussion has gone back a few pages and has been me and others pointing out that owning a house is not always the best option (ie a reasonable position), and others implying or outright saying that the only reason you would rent is if you were poor or stupid. When I posted that I could afford to buy, but chose not to, I was treated as if I was lying.

This is pretty irritating for people such as myself, as it is essentially the boomer generation having lucked out and bought houses while they were cheap and now sit on a lot of paper money telling their children how smart they were at making money when it was just dumb luck. However, partially because of their actions pumping up the housing market, houses are significantly more expensive now compared to renting. They can't appreciate that the game has changed and what may have made sense financially 20 years ago may not make sense now.

That's just it though. It's not dumb luck, and there's nothing to stop people from having the same so called 'dumb luck' today. Young people today don't have patience or vision for the long haul.

[jc_yyc_ca]

So real estate has been slow over the past ten years. The 10 years before that real estate had crazy gains. Anyone who follows real estate knows that it goes in cycles, and the bottom line is that if you have owned a property over ... say 30 years of any particular eras, you'll encounter jumps, drops, and flat periods, but in the long run you'll have done quite well.

Originally Posted by Doug

20% on single family over 10 years is basically inflation

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

That's just it though. It's not dumb luck, and there's nothing to stop people from having the same so called 'dumb luck' today. Young people today don't have patience or vision for the long haul.

It is dumb luck, and your arrogance that you are just smarter and more patient than younger people is telling.

Of course there's something stopping younger people, just look at that graph. Compared to 15 years ago houses are more than twice the price now. Are you really that mathematically challenged that you can't see how that would change the calculations now as to back then? It may well have been a no-brainer 15 years ago, but with the numbers as are they now it will often be a wash as to what comes out ahead financially renting vs owning, and once you factor in the increased risk and lack of flexibility of owning that pushes it in favour of renting for me personally.

[ST1]

It has nothing to do with dumb luck but rather a change in priorities for young people today. Yes, house prices might be double what they were 15 years ago, but wages are also double what they were 15 years ago.

Back when I was younger people were having families earlier, and there was more incentive and urgency to get yourself into a financially stable position for the long term.
I find today’s millennials only care about when the next music festival is coming or whether there’s a dedicated bike lane for their commute to work rather than setting down roots with a mortgage.
The biggest issue they face in purchasing a home is their own pickiness to live in a starter home out in a neighbourhood like Falconridge or Dover in order to build equity and move into a bigger home in a nicer neighbourhood later. It’s gotta be hip and cool or they won’t live there.

Originally Posted by milomilo

It is dumb luck, and your arrogance that you are just smarter and more patient than younger people is telling.

Of course there's something stopping younger people, just look at that graph. Compared to 15 years ago houses are more than twice the price now. Are you really that mathematically challenged that you can't see how that would change the calculations now as to back then? It may well have been a no-brainer 15 years ago, but with the numbers as are they now it will often be a wash as to what comes out ahead financially renting vs owning, and once you factor in the increased risk and lack of flexibility of owning that pushes it in favour of renting for me personally.

[milomilo]

Well, according to this information, wages in Alberta have gone up from ~$700 to ~$1100 a week since 2003, a 57% increase. Substantial, but nowhere near as much as the 150% increase from $225,000 to $575,000 shown in that graph above. Facts are facts, and houses were simply more affordable 15 years ago, and it is not because of your superior work ethic.

And no thanks to living in a POS starter home in Falconridge. Why the fuck would I do that? When I could rent a place in a better community in a better house while also saving more money for a house I do want when I'm ready to buy. Rather than wasting money on interest, transaction costs, maintenance all on a place I don't want to live in.

The most frustrating thing is so many people do follow the advice of 'buy at all costs'. Even though most overstretch and can't truly afford it. This makes the cost to buy more expensive for those of us who are sensible and only buy what we can afford, when we can afford it. Luckily, it's not bad enough in Calgary that house prices are out of control and we're forced to make bad decisions like in Vancouver and Toronto.

[Design-mind]

Kensington Manor will be coming down due to an unsound structure. It was announced today that the problem cannot be repaired in a cost effective manor, so it will be demolished and rebuilt.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by ST1

It has nothing to do with dumb luck but rather a change in priorities for young people today. Yes, house prices might be double what they were 15 years ago, but wages are also double what they were 15 years ago.

Back when I was younger people were having families earlier, and there was more incentive and urgency to get yourself into a financially stable position for the long term.
I find today’s millennials only care about when the next music festival is coming or whether there’s a dedicated bike lane for their commute to work rather than setting down roots with a mortgage.
The biggest issue they face in purchasing a home is their own pickiness to live in a starter home out in a neighbourhood like Falconridge or Dover in order to build equity and move into a bigger home in a nicer neighbourhood later. It’s gotta be hip and cool or they won’t live there.

You missed interest rates. Prices were lower 15 years ago but rates were higher. Housing prices and interest rates inversely correlate. Until the last year, interest rates trended down for 40 years. Now they are rising so housing prices will struggle.

[ST1]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Well, according to this information, wages in Alberta have gone up from ~$700 to ~$1100 a week since 2003, a 57% increase. Substantial, but nowhere near as much as the 150% increase from $225,000 to $575,000 shown in that graph above. Facts are facts, and houses were simply more affordable 15 years ago, and it is not because of your superior work ethic.

And no thanks to living in a POS starter home in Falconridge. Why the fuck would I do that? When I could rent a place in a better community in a better house while also saving more money for a house I do want when I'm ready to buy. Rather than wasting money on interest, transaction costs, maintenance all on a place I don't want to live in.

The most frustrating thing is so many people do follow the advice of 'buy at all costs'. Even though most overstretch and can't truly afford it. This makes the cost to buy more expensive for those of us who are sensible and only buy what we can afford, when we can afford it. Luckily, it's not bad enough in Calgary that house prices are out of control and we're forced to make bad decisions like in Vancouver and Toronto.

If only I had a dollar for each time I’ve seen someone rent with the idea of saving money to buy a house later but never bought or bought too late, I would be a millionaire and that would be the best investment ever.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by ST1

If only I had a dollar for each time I’ve seen someone rent with the idea of saving money to buy a house later but never bought or bought too late, I would be a millionaire and that would be the best investment ever.

That's a fair comment, and I agree that for some a mortgage being 'forced saving' is a good thing. However, if you are disciplined then that doesn't matter, my savings are going up much faster than a required down payment is, but if that starts to change then I will change strategy.

Not being shackled by a large mortgage also means that if you hit hard times - lose a job etc, then downgrading to rent a more modest place isn't such a catastrophe as selling your huge house. How many people in Calgary do you think rinsed through all their savings to hang on a big house through this recession?

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I wouldn't quite call this a mansion. It is a rather traditional Calgary inner city design, however. An ode to Mount Royal (or something of the sort). Looking at it, I'm certain it will result in numerous "hater" posts from the renters on the forum

Yeah it might have a style one would associate with an older mansion, but it doesn't appear to be much bigger than your typical inner-city infill duplex (but in this case just one unit of course)

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

I detect a slight hint of sarcasm, but yeah that’s what always happens whenever someone posts anything that shows off someone’s wealth. The first thing people say is ‘I wouldn’t live there even if I had the money’ I mean c’mon you’re not fooling anyone.

I wouldn't live there even if I had the money

Honestly.

But I also don't care that it was built.

[Deepstar]

Originally Posted by milomilo

That's a fair comment, and I agree that for some a mortgage being 'forced saving' is a good thing. However, if you are disciplined then that doesn't matter, my savings are going up much faster than a required down payment is, but if that starts to change then I will change strategy.

Not being shackled by a large mortgage also means that if you hit hard times - lose a job etc, then downgrading to rent a more modest place isn't such a catastrophe as selling your huge house. How many people in Calgary do you think rinsed through all their savings to hang on a big house through this recession?

Hopefully you do manage to own property at some point. The biggest issue I’ve seen with people renting is when they rent all their lives and come to retirement and realize all have to keep paying to live somewhere but there now on a fixed income.