Gas Prices

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by 240glt

I admit I have not kept up on EV technology... but you're saying that you could make a 1200km road trip on two 45 minute charges ?

Yes, with the longer range Tesla models, and using their Supercharger network.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

plus if you need to use A/C or heating such as rear window defrost, heated seats, etc.

all that stuff destroys the range of EV's. then add in the mountains as you mentioned. and what if you get to a place and have to wait in line for a charger? your coffee break turns into a lunch/dinner break. charging an EV takes longer than the 5mins it takes to gas up a car that is good for 400km's.

realistically i think hybrid's or EV with an engine a better idea. i would rather not have to rely on a technology that is relatively new and can be dramatically effected in the heat and cold and power flow

What if your POS gas engine breaks down climbing the Coq? What if, what if, what if.

So much FUD out there.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes, with the longer range Tesla models, and using their Supercharger network.

I’d consider Tesla very much a niche vehicle at this time, within what is in itself a niche market

Can the same be done with a more mainstream EV ?

I’d still rather consider a hybrid. If a hybrid model of our vehicle were available we’d probably have bought it

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by 240glt

I’d consider Tesla very much a niche vehicle at this time, within what is in itself a niche market

Can the same be done with a more mainstream EV ?

Nobody else can charge that fast, yet. VW and others are talking about similar or better charging speeds, but I don't really trust anything until it's for sale.

GM's EV can charge at around half the speed, which is still very capable for road trips.

Tesla is a niche manufacturer, but they are the best selling EV by a mile.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What if your POS gas engine breaks down climbing the Coq? What if, what if, what if.

So much FUD out there.

that is not a fair comparison at all.

a fair comparison would be "what if you run out of gas" vs "what if you run out of electric charge" the average person is much more likely to have anxiety of running our of charge vs their car breaking down. gasoline powered cars are very, very reliable.

the fact is, it is much easier and creates a lot less stress/worrying for the average person when it comes to driving a normal car with a gasoline engine vs an all electric car.

but keep throwing our pointless comparables because why bother with apple to apples when you can do oranges to kangaroos!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

that is not a fair comparison at all.

a fair comparison would be "what if you run out of gas" vs "what if you run out of electric charge" the average person is much more likely to have anxiety of running our of charge vs their car breaking down. gasoline powered cars are very, very reliable.

the fact is, it is much easier and creates a lot less stress/worrying for the average person when it comes to driving a normal car with a gasoline engine vs an all electric car.

but keep throwing our pointless comparables because why bother with apple to apples when you can do oranges to kangaroos!

Hey, you just made up a bunch of random problems, anybody can do that.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by 240glt

I admit I have not kept up on EV technology... but you're saying that you could make a 1200km road trip on two 45 minute charges ?

Probably more like 3x 30 minute charges. Start off with ~400km range, then 3x 250km charges. A Tesla should be able to do that fairly easily. A Bolt might need a bit of extra time. The longer range Model 3 is rated for 500km range.

Low charge to about 75% is generally the fastest an EV charges at, then the last bit is slower. It's called a charge taper.

[Klazu]

I thought the topic was high gas prices...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Hey, you just made up a bunch of random problems, anybody can do that.

random problems? they are very real problems since using heated seats in a electric car isn't even recommended by Tesla. that would be like saying using the engine isn't recommended by ford when driving one. not even remotely the same thing. anything that requires a large power draw, is a very real issue with using an all electric car on long distance drives through the mountain. it is a very valid thing to think about. thinking about some "POS engine breaking down" is self inflected and not an issue for the majority. whereas power consumption in an all electric car is an issue all electric cars face.

[twoNeurons]

Whoa, seat warmers... things are getting pretty heated in here.

I will say one thing, though... the same arguments about range always come up over and over again. What if I'm in the middle of nowhere and have to charge my car?

There are pros and cons to electric vehicles... but it's a question of whether their pros outweigh their cons.

Mobile phones on a cellular network initially were horrible. They had poor range, you had to charge them, and coverage was spotty. They improved, but you still have to charge them daily. The good ol' landline never goes down... but you're tethered.

Electric vehicles are charged at night when you're sleeping. You no longer have to every actually stop at a charging station for normal use, just like you don't have to worry about your phone for normal use.

If you're driving across the province, well then you have to make some compromises. If this is a trip you make frequently, then you have to evaluate whether the extra time required to recharge is worth it. If it isn't... the solution is simple.

Rent a car.

The money you'll have saved in fuel will likely more than pay for the occasional rental car for long trips.

In the end, I think people blow it out of proportion more than it needs to be. It's like people who are overinsured and want a $200 deductible and $5 million liability... just in case... all the while paying for too much coverage.

Having driven an electric vehicle, though... the one nice thing about them is how much MORE efficient they generally are going up and down hills. Every single time you touch the brakes in an ICE car, you're throwing energy away... but whenever you take your foot off the accelerator, you're generating energy. I don't know how efficient that process is, but I'm sure it nullifies a lot of the energy used when climbing hills... or at least from an energy perspective, turns a mountain of energy required into a hill.

This reminds me of how some of the Canada Line stations are all built so that the approaches are a slight incline, to make stopping more efficient and convert some of that kinetic energy into gravitational potential energy.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

random problems? they are very real problems since using heated seats in a electric car isn't even recommended by Tesla. that would be like saying using the engine isn't recommended by ford when driving one. not even remotely the same thing. anything that requires a large power draw, is a very real issue with using an all electric car on long distance drives through the mountain. it is a very valid thing to think about. thinking about some "POS engine breaking down" is self inflected and not an issue for the majority. whereas power consumption in an all electric car is an issue all electric cars face.

I've used heated seats before. They are nice if you're starting in a cold environment to quickly warm you up before the heater gets going, but hardly something required on long road trips. Please let me know where Tesla recommends not using heated seats. My car will even have them in the back.

The hill climbing has been addressed already. You regain energy on the way down, or when slowing down for any reason.

The fact is that internal combustion engine cars have at least 10 times more moving parts, not to mention several critical liquids that could leak and make it inoperable. All other things equal, you're statistically more likely to have a breakdown with a gas engine.

[cabotp]

While the range af an EV car is one concern. The range of most EV cars now is somewhat comparable to a gasoline engine car. Most gasoline cars will get approx 500KM to a tank. While it looks like and EV car might get 300-400KM per battery charge. So while the EV range is a bit lower than the gasoline. It isn't so low that it can't be working around.

The bigger issue is the amount of possible charging points compared the gas stations along the way. If one were to be driving to Edmonton or Calgary with a gasoline engine. They have countless number of possible places to gas up. From big towns like Kamploops to small one gas station towns along the side of the highway. A driver can still run out of gas, but the chances are lower due to probably being able to make it to the next town if the gas tank is getting low. It is also why there are signs saying next gas station in 150KM to warn people to check their gas tank and make sure you can make it with what you have.

If you were driving an EV car you would need to do the same thing. See where the next possible EV charging station is and determine based on your current battery charge can you make it that far. If not stop and get charged. Both EV and gasoline cars have the exact same problem.

A couple of thoughts I had not in terms of EV and range. One thing would be if you are driving an EV car and the battery is starting to get low. The car would automatically start to turn off the different accessories by going into a lower power mode. So heated seats would turn off, the AC would turn off, All possible power outlets in the car would turn off etc. This would temporarily extend the range of the car to hopefully get you to the next charging location. This would only be for an emergency though.

The other thought I had is in regards to possible charging stations. I feel one reason you don't see a lot of charging stations is that who ever puts one on their property ends up paying for the cost of the electricty not the driver of the car. So if I go to a charging station on a mall parking lot. The mall ends up paying for it and not me. A quick idea I had would be for every charging station to have the ability to take a credit card or debit card as a payment. So I go to a charging station insert my credit or debit card and they charge my car and get billed for what I use.

[excel]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Whoa, seat warmers... things are getting pretty heated in here.

I will say one thing, though... the same arguments about range always come up over and over again. What if I'm in the middle of nowhere and have to charge my car?

There are pros and cons to electric vehicles... but it's a question of whether their pros outweigh their cons.

Mobile phones on a cellular network initially were horrible. They had poor range, you had to charge them, and coverage was spotty. They improved, but you still have to charge them daily. The good ol' landline never goes down... but you're tethered.

Electric vehicles are charged at night when you're sleeping. You no longer have to every actually stop at a charging station for normal use, just like you don't have to worry about your phone for normal use.

If you're driving across the province, well then you have to make some compromises. If this is a trip you make frequently, then you have to evaluate whether the extra time required to recharge is worth it. If it isn't... the solution is simple.

Rent a car.

The money you'll have saved in fuel will likely more than pay for the occasional rental car for long trips.

In the end, I think people blow it out of proportion more than it needs to be. It's like people who are overinsured and want a $200 deductible and $5 million liability... just in case... all the while paying for too much coverage.

Having driven an electric vehicle, though... the one nice thing about them is how much MORE efficient they generally are going up and down hills. Every single time you touch the brakes in an ICE car, you're throwing energy away... but whenever you take your foot off the accelerator, you're generating energy. I don't know how efficient that process is, but I'm sure it nullifies a lot of the energy used when climbing hills... or at least from an energy perspective, turns a mountain of energy required into a hill.

This reminds me of how some of the Canada Line stations are all built so that the approaches are a slight incline, to make stopping more efficient and convert some of that kinetic energy into gravitational potential energy.

Well said.

[SpongeG]

gas is around 154.9 - 155.9 here in Coquitlam. I was on the island on sunday/monday. NAnaimo and PArksville were both 149.9, there were 2 stations in between that were 146.9, everywhere south of nanaimo ie ladysmith duncan was 149.9. Once you hit Victoria it was 155.9 everywhere. So the same as here but they don't have the translink tax do they?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

gas is around 154.9 - 155.9 here in Coquitlam. I was on the island on sunday/monday. NAnaimo and PArksville were both 149.9, there were 2 stations in between that were 146.9, everywhere south of nanaimo ie ladysmith duncan was 149.9. Once you hit Victoria it was 155.9 everywhere. So the same as here but they don't have the translink tax do they?

Victoria has a transit tax but it's something like 12 cents/liter lower than Metro Vancouver's.

[officedweller]

Last night I saw:

155.9 Shell - Broadway & Arbutus
158.9 Esso - Broadway & Burrard
154.9 Chevron - Burrard @ 3rd

Thought that was more variation than usual.

[ClaytonA]

Twitter threads about EV road trip to the Okanagan and back over mountain passes.
Averaged 2.06L/100km equivalent. Cost ~$24 for 1100km of driving. Vehicle with 200km range.

https://twitter.com/westhefarmer

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Last night I saw:

155.9 Shell - Broadway & Arbutus
158.9 Esso - Broadway & Burrard
154.9 Chevron - Burrard @ 3rd

Thought that was more variation than usual.

Filled up in Bellingham last night at $115/L Can. The gas price is high for WA and people there are complaining about being gouged.

This all nothing but profit taking on several levels. That's the problem with how the price of oil is set. A major commodity like oil should be regulated differently than other natural resources.

[Firebrand]

Welp, now I have to deal with the 18.5% gas tax (particularly for the LRT they’re ramming through).

[dandor31]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Welp, now I have to deal with the 18.5% gas tax (particularly for the LRT they’re ramming through).

To be clear is actually $0.185/L in tax (was $0.170/L). Because its a flat tax, one should expect it to increase at the very least for inflation. Also, in the release, it's only estimated to impact drivers about $24/yr. That's peanuts!

Transit passengers are paying even more of an increase! At $0.10 increase to fares (effective this July 1, and then annually thereafter), that $48/yr (twice a day, 20 times a month). That's twice the increase over drivers, for a population with (generally) much less means to pay.

Nonetheless, all of this seems well worth it for the $7B investment in transit that is sorely need in Metro Vancouver.