Calgary's $8 BILLION Transit Plan - The RouteAhead

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

It's not going to be rush hour only service. Buses will run every 10 minutes during peak times and less often otherwise. How less often will probably determine how successful the route is. Well, that and how congested 16 Avenue is. As far as I'm concerned trying to run an express bus on that road is a big mistake even with priority signals.

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

99 has very good throughput (ridership) even with limited priority in Vancouver. Do you think they should have built sections of transit way along 16 Ave? 16 Ave could be a really well used route, but I agree this is not enough. Right direction though. Freeway-ification pressures will build on 16 Ave as interchanges happen on the east and west ends of 16 Ave. McKnight's busy. Beddington Trail's busy. Crowchild/Glenmore too.

The east-west travel issue in Calgary is really land use; there is an undersupply of employment in the NW and slightly lesser extent SW. In another post, someone pointed out that despite that (maybe because the market's small) employment, for example office space like at Brentwood's University City, is really hard to get built in the NW while there's lots downtown, south of downtown, and east of Deerfoot.

I think the rebuild of 16th however many years ago was poorly implemented. I still believe it would have been altogether more useful to have a proper Glenmore parallel there, but even if that is never going to happen the built form of the road is pretty useless. The planters in the median are a waste of space and that space should have been used to widen sidewalks and/or put in transit lanes instead.

There is enough space to put in transit lanes and keep the existing 6 vehicle lanes (albeit narrower) which would allow a proper BRT, but that would now mean ripping up the road completely. Given the glacial pace of development on the road, I'm not sure that would be worth it. We'll have to see how well used the new 'BRT' is.

[ClaytonA]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I think the rebuild of 16th however many years ago was poorly implemented. I still believe it would have been altogether more useful to have a proper Glenmore parallel there, but even if that is never going to happen the built form of the road is pretty useless. The planters in the median are a waste of space and that space should have been used to widen sidewalks and/or put in transit lanes instead.

There is enough space to put in transit lanes and keep the existing 6 vehicle lanes (albeit narrower) which would allow a proper BRT, but that would now mean ripping up the road completely. Given the glacial pace of development on the road, I'm not sure that would be worth it. We'll have to see how well used the new 'BRT' is.

Glenmore was very different from 16 Ave though. Parking lots accessed off frontage roads and single family house backyards (which were bulldozed) versus traffic oriented retail like auto parts, repair shops, restaurants, etc. The fabric was different.

Ridership likely won't be reflective of potential given it'll be in mixed traffic and from what I'm reading/seeing/strongly implied on City websites only a peak hour service to start. Hopefully it surprises.

IIRC this was ranked ahead of the SE BRT, ranked second after the North Central BRT. What's being built? 17 Ave SE BRT. What's next? SW BRT/Crosstown Express Bus and (if an austerity provincial government isn't elected in 2019) Green Line LRT that's replaced SE BRT. Improvements are being made though with some queue jumps, just nothing like an LRT or transitways. What's changed since 2012/2014?

If investment was more heavily weighted to ridership, a good proxy for demand, then those two would've been built first. What's happened is still good. 17 Ave SE is a big investment in social equity, relieves pressure on 17 Ave freewayification, relieves pressure for more 16 Ave NE interchanges, and Chestermere's gotten pretty big. Green Line is better than widening Deerfoot even more, had to go south for the OMC, relieves pressure on S Red Line, and goes to under-transit-served communities in the far SE. Looks like Crowchild is getting some more work done too at the Bow River which helps the north generally.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

Ridership likely won't be reflective of potential given it'll be in mixed traffic and from what I'm reading/seeing/strongly implied on City websites only a peak hour service to start.

Not sure you're reading that right.

When service starts in 2018, the BRT will operate seven days a week with buses running every 10 minutes during peak hours (6:30-9 a.m. & 3-6 p.m.) As ridership grows, the BRT will operate seven days a week, 15 hours per day with buses every 10 minutes.

(http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/...h-Crosstown-Bus-Rapid-Transit-(BRT).aspx)

It's worded ambiguously, I'll agree. But I believe they're merely highlighting that peak service will be "every 10 minutes"; I take it that non-peak service will exist, but won't be "every 10 minutes" at the start.

I'm a bit worried about its effectiveness in mixed traffic too. Not sure why 17th Ave SE gets dedicated lanes (which I'm glad for!) but 16th Ave N doesn't... other than (presumably) some study saying "it'll be ok". Well, at least there's always the possibility of future upgrades.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

Not sure you're reading that right.


(http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/...h-Crosstown-Bus-Rapid-Transit-(BRT).aspx)

It's worded ambiguously, I'll agree. But I believe they're merely highlighting that peak service will be "every 10 minutes"; I take it that non-peak service will exist, but won't be "every 10 minutes" at the start.

I'm a bit worried about its effectiveness in mixed traffic too. Not sure why 17th Ave SE gets dedicated lanes (which I'm glad for!) but 16th Ave N doesn't... other than (presumably) some study saying "it'll be ok". Well, at least there's always the possibility of future upgrades.

17th Avenue SE is a whole different beast as compared to 16th Avenue North - the amount of traffic turning on and off 17th into little shops and shopping plazas is considerably more than 16th sees.

[ClaytonA]

Crews will be putting the girders in place for the bridge over Deerfoot Trail. To make sure this work can be done safely, there will be three road closures this month:

February 13-15, 9 p.m. to 5 a.m.: Deerfoot Trail will be closed for north and southbound traffic. Southbound traffic will be detoured onto Blackfoot Trail, and northbound traffic will be detoured onto Peigan Trail.
February 20-22, 9 p.m. to 5 a.m.: 17 Avenue SE southbound on ramp to Deerfoot Trail will be closed. Traffic will be detoured to Memorial Drive or Blackfoot Trail.
February 26-28, 9 p.m. to 5 a.m.: Northbound traffic off ramp from Deerfoot Trail to 17 Avenue SE will be closed. Traffic will be detoured onto Memorial Drive.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/...se-brt-phase-2-28-st-se-to-9-ave-se.aspx

[ClaytonA]

They've got some girders up on the link above (links for webcams halfway down) for 17 Ave SE.

[Design-mind]

Also posted this under roads as I was not sure which thread to put this under. 17th Ave BRT expansion.

[Design-mind]

Thanks ClaytonA for the webcam links. Those are great!

[ClaytonA]

Nice pictures DM! Thanks for the different angle. Few more girders up now from the webcam over the WID canal and Deerfoot ramps.

[ClaytonA]

Interesting RouteAhead Update.
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com/...-f014ccdf9fe1&Agenda=Agenda&lang=English

Effectively more transit operating budget cuts coming. Transit has found efficiencies since 2012 by contracting out work, not doing new hires, and reallocating service. Calling mixed traffic express bus BRTs complete isn't good;it implies improving the corridor over the next 29 years not going to happen. The two crosstowns feel set up to fail.

[ClaytonA]

The One Calgary documents, budget for 2019-2022 feels very focused on $ spent, with $ spent, or service for value received, underneath all the higher level goals of triple bottom line. The One Calgary document recommends 76-100% support.

https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com/...-4a4d6b207e69&Agenda=Agenda&lang=English

They propose a guideline of a 1% public investment increase in the long term over the Action Plan 2015-2018. Of course that's from the range of 50-55% support, not the 58ish right now (i.e. temporarily above the targeted public investment range). Never mind RouteAhead plans E.g. from here: https://web.archive.org/web/20160310173733/transitcamp.ca/2014/11/12/mind-the-gap/

[ClaytonA]

For the record, that gap to 2.6 service hours per capita 2018 target as of 2017 was 0.36 hrs/capita or 16% (2.24 hrs per capita in 2017) per the City's Accountability Report. cf PFC committee minutes. With less transit service some people's commutes will get more expensive/take longer. An alternative view, per Nathan Pachal's, some would say narrow report card on his cost of service metrics, is that Calgary Transit will be more efficient and get a higher grade performing better. Transit may be in a hard spot revenue-wise until downtown employment picks up again enough to constrain car commutes.

What should happen to service hours? It feels like there may be an ask for above inflation fare increases with the uptake in low income transit passes, or changes to lower the [discount provided to] discounted fares. Something's got to give just to stay flat service-wise, never mind adding service as the 30 year plan proposes. Where's the operating budget going to find revenue?

[ClaytonA]

That all said, 17 Ave SE Phase 2 is looking busy; https://app.oxblue.com/open/cityofcalgary/deerfoottrail

[DoubleK]

The construction zone is on my commute to work. They have done a fantastic job of maintaining two lanes in both directions during the project.

In places you can really see how the median is going to be after it's done.

[milomilo]

https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com/...6503afd6bf&Agenda=Merged&lang=English#19

Was looking through council minutes, and in this 'Bus Rapid Transit Network Marketing Strategy' document, it looks like the new BRTs will have a new brand name - 'MAX'. Not sure if I like it but I don't hate it so that's OK I guess.

I wonder if they'll still refer to the existing 'BRTs' as such, even though there was nothing rapid about them. Even the new BRTs are not BRTs, they just have BRT sections. Except the North Crosstown, which is not a BRT at all.

[lubicon]

When in think of Max I see aircraft not busses.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by milomilo

https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com/...6503afd6bf&Agenda=Merged&lang=English#19

Was looking through council minutes, and in this 'Bus Rapid Transit Network Marketing Strategy' document, it looks like the new BRTs will have a new brand name - 'MAX'. Not sure if I like it but I don't hate it so that's OK I guess.

I wonder if they'll still refer to the existing 'BRTs' as such, even though there was nothing rapid about them. Even the new BRTs are not BRTs, they just have BRT sections. Except the North Crosstown, which is not a BRT at all.

Doesn't Portland use MAX for their LRT system? Anyway, this sounds like they're going to try and make this sound a lot better than it will be. As far as I'm concerned this is a huge waste of hundreds of millions of dollars to get slightly faster bus service.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Doesn't Portland use MAX for their LRT system? Anyway, this sounds like they're going to try and make this sound a lot better than it will be. As far as I'm concerned this is a huge waste of hundreds of millions of dollars to get slightly faster bus service.

I'm no fan of buses, but I don't mind the new BRTs. It'll be low hundreds of millions, much cheaper than LRT. The thing is though, is that what we are building is just a tiny portion of what a true BRT system should be - they are currently just building the easy parts. What I hope happens is that going forward they start building some of the hard parts - ie into downtown.

Like with cycle tracks, while one on its own is not very useful and seems tokenistic, once you add more and more and link them up, the value of all of them becomes much better. If rather than just a fast bus along 17th that has to then chug through Inglewood in mixed traffic, you actually have a segregated route that can bring you all the way downtown quicker than a car, the bus then actually becomes a good proposition.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by milomilo

https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com/...6503afd6bf&Agenda=Merged&lang=English#19

Was looking through council minutes, and in this 'Bus Rapid Transit Network Marketing Strategy' document, it looks like the new BRTs will have a new brand name - 'MAX'. Not sure if I like it but I don't hate it so that's OK I guess.

I wonder if they'll still refer to the existing 'BRTs' as such, even though there was nothing rapid about them. Even the new BRTs are not BRTs, they just have BRT sections. Except the North Crosstown, which is not a BRT at all.

I'm not thrilled about marketing the new routes as being a special new service, when it's not all that special -- especially North Crosstown. (In this context, dedicated lanes and/or grade separation is my minimum bar for "special".)

It's a tricky balance -- you definitely want people to know about the new services and want to use them, but if you oversell the marketing and underdeliver the product, then that will undermine support for future work on the BRT network.

[MalcolmTucker]

Marketing routes with minimum services standards is important - high frequency (10 minutes? 15 minutes) and all day is trans-formative. It should be as easy as possible to identify those routes on maps and signs.