DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Denver Dweller]

https://businessden.com/2018/06/19/rhode...m_term=0_e8b1506f0c-3441572cad-147998669

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

This might be old news but I guess WTC Denver is supposed to break ground this summer http://amp.thedenverchannel.com/26230756...tional-businesses-to-mile-high-city.html.

Well, there's been a lot of skepticism on here that it would ever break ground, so if it actually does this summer, then that's (new) good news!

[CherryCreek]

The Golden Triangle continues to develop, including potential development plans for the Evans School. The article indicates the Holland Group has submitted plans for the parking lot just east of the Evans School and that the Holland Group is reported to be under contract to purchase the school itself.

https://businessden.com/2018/06/20/submi...ore-apartment-towers-in-golden-triangle/

Here's the arial of both the school and the lot to the east slated for development.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.734588,-104.989477,250m/data=!3m1!1e3

Would love to see the old Evans School developed into something special. There are still a dearth of entertainment and restaurant options in Golden Triangle and even Cap Hill. Most of the restaurant, bar, brewery, and distillery development over the past decade has focused on RiNo, Union Station and LoHi, while the most densely populated part of the city - Cap Hill - has been neglected.

Turning the Evans school into multi-use building with a food hall, brewery, etc. would be awesome and would doubtlessly draw traffic from Cap Hill next door, as well the increasingly dense Golden Triangle. Milk Market is cool - putting something similar in concept in this area would be a winner, I think.

Perhaps the top floors could be condo offices or even residences, with the surrounding land as part of high rise towers. Another possibility: go all Crawford and include a boutique hotel in the building.

[BG918]

I worry we are nearing "peak food hall" in Denver, and Golden Triangle already has one under construction in the old Tony's space at 10th & Broadway. Condos similar to what they did with the old Wash Park Elem. building would be great, as would a boutique hotel or offices. I used to live nearby and hated to see it empty for so many years, but at least the current owners haven't let it fall apart.

[rds70]

New 8 story apartment building planned near the Evans light rail station:

https://businessden.com/2018/06/18/rezoning-approved-for-planned-overland-apartments/

[twister244]

While this isn't directly related to Denver, it appears we are still a ways out from figuring out the "winner" of HQ2, if this reporting is accurate -

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta...p-bring-amazon-hq2-to-the-city/773004394

I would have posted this in the HQ2 thread, but that's locked up right now, for good reasons.

[SnyderBock]

Who said Amazon is looking for an "east coast" headquarters? Is that this news channels way to try and undercut or discount some of the competing cities for HQ2 which are not located on the east coast? There are strong bids from Dallas, Pittsburg and Denver as well as others not located on the east coast. Amazon never specified a geographical requirement. That article mentions "east coast headquarters" more than once.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Who said Amazon is looking for an "east coast" headquarters? Is that this news channels way to try and undercut or discount some of the competing cities for HQ2 which are not located on the east coast? There are strong bids from Dallas, Pittsburg and Denver as well as others not located on the east coast. Amazon never specified a geographical requirement. That article mentions "east coast headquarters" more than once.

There is absolutely no evidence to support this, from what I can tell. I am sure there are specific things they may be weighing more than others, but none of us (or anyone else in the media for that matter) know for sure. If Amazon had a strong enough preference for an East Coast location, then the top 20 list may have been limited to east of the Mississippi. However, no one (aside from those in the scouting process) really knows how much they are weighing that. My personal view is that Denver is a very strong contender that seems to be flying under the radar a bit here. I find it interesting they visited Denver very very early in the process (late January after narrowing the list down). However, that may not mean anything. Denver has it's plusses/minuses compared to some other cities on the list, but then again, see my earlier point on Amazon preferences.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by twister244

There is absolutely no evidence to support this, from what I can tell. I am sure there are specific things they may be weighing more than others, but none of us (or anyone else in the media for that matter) know for sure. If Amazon had a strong enough preference for an East Coast location, then the top 20 list may have been limited to east of the Mississippi. However, no one (aside from those in the scouting process) really knows how much they are weighing that. My personal view is that Denver is a very strong contender that seems to be flying under the radar a bit here. I find it interesting they visited Denver very very early in the process (late January after narrowing the list down). However, that may not mean anything. Denver has it's plusses/minuses compared to some other cities on the list, but then again, see my earlier point on Amazon preferences.

I always thought the time zone thing (which the East coasters suggested strongly favored an East Coast location) was a red herring.

If Amazon was a one office organization, or just a US operating business, looking to grow its business into new geographies by adding a second office, that would make sense. But Amazon already is one of the biggest companies in the world and has offices all over the world with many locations with hundreds of employees or more.

HQ2 is about a second global headquarters location, not about a "regional" office to support the eastern region. Amazon can support the East Coast from the East Coast, and Europe from Europe. It's already doing that. No doubt Amazon will continue to support its global business with offices and appropriate personnel in all the key regions in which they operate. But that's not what HQ2 is about, according to Amazon.

When you think of Amazon's global ambitions, then the 2 hour difference between the East Coast time zone and Mountain Time zone doesn't amount to anything.

Edit: Meanwhile, DBJ just (Wed. 3:30 pm).https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2018/06/20/amazon-denver-communication-hq2.html posted a story about Amazon's latest communication to Denver. I don't have a subscription, so not sure what it says.

[CherryCreek]

Hmmm.. CREJ is reporting that both WTC and Rock Drill are "under construction."

News to me.

https://crej.com/news/river-north-roundup-2m-sf-of-new-office-space/

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Edit: Meanwhile, DBJ just (Wed. 3:30 pm).https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2018/06/20/amazon-denver-communication-hq2.html posted a story about Amazon's latest communication to Denver. I don't have a subscription, so not sure what it says.

Here ya go.

Amazon officials have written to economic-development leaders in Denver and in the other 19 metro areas being considered as a location for the company’s second headquarters to tell them the process continues to move along and that their next decision is likely to narrow the field to a small group of finalists rather than a single location that will be home to HQ2.

“The email told us essentially what we already knew — that this is a highly detailed process and they are continuing to investigate it,” Bailey said. “It’s always good to hear from them. And this message is better than the alternative.”

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Here ya go.

Okay, let's play the game that they will come back with a Top 5. Who would it be?

My guesses (in no particular order):

1. Chicago - Pluses: Great urban center, airports, work face base, cost structure. Minuses: Illinois is a mess - Amazon may fear that it would get stuck with bill to help bail out a failed state.

2. Austin - Pluses: Great tech scene, millennial powerhouse, huge research university, home of Whole Foods subsidiary. Minuses: Weak on airport, national and global connections; not sure Texas matches corporate culture.

3. Washington/NoVa- Pluses: Very good tech work force, excellent air and train connections, decent public transport, booming city. Minuses: Very few. Higher costs than No. 1 or 2 (I think) perhaps Bezos would be hesitant to join the Washington "swamp."

4. Toronto: Pluses: Internationalizes an International company and gives Amazon leverage to play off Canada vs. US for his advantage; may view Canada as nice balance to US' seeming anti-science, anti-trade, anti-immigrant trends. Minuses: Expensive!! May fear US political backlash for picking Canada.

5. Denver: Pluses: Millennial magnet, probably closest fit culturally to current headquarters, good airport connections. A number of available sites that on paper meet the desired features. Minuses: May be to similar to Seattle and have some of the same features (Nimbyism, sharply escalating costs) that drove Amazon to look for Hq2 in the first instance.

[twister244]

I actually agree pretty closely with that list. I would add Austin's public transit pales in comparison to Denver's. then again, Denver's pales in comparison to Chicago/DC.

Will be interesting to see how it sorts out over the next couple months.

[DenvertoLA]

So, question: From my local knowledge, Capital Hill is a part of the city where a large chunk of people live. If that is the case, why are there not any new apartment/condo developments in that area?

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by twister244

I actually agree pretty closely with that list. I would add Austin's public transit pales in comparison to Denver's. then again, Denver's pales in comparison to Chicago/DC.

Will be interesting to see how it sorts out over the next couple months.

I would generally agree, except Austin might just be too small. If there’s a 6 and 7, I’d think Atlanta and Boston are still real too.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

So, question: From my local knowledge, Capital Hill is a part of the city where a large chunk of people live. If that is the case, why are there not any new apartment/condo developments in that area?

Except for the communist block on Grant, where would you put new developments?

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Except for the communist block on Grant, where would you put new developments?

I just had a conversation about this the other day - eventually we need to start tearing down some of the 2-3 story 40s-70s courtyard/walkup apartment buildings (that were once affordable) and replace them with larger, denser development. I'm not talking about Poet's Row or anything with character like a lot of the buildings by Humboldt Island or the scattered Art Deco buildings (many of which are still crumbling and no longer affordable, but are at least architecturally interesting) but the cheap brick cubes that (now that I think about it) are the smaller 70-year-old equivalents of the cheap fake-stucco-siding cubes going up now.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

I just had a conversation about this the other day - eventually we need to start tearing down some of the 2-3 story 40s-70s courtyard/walkup apartment buildings (that were once affordable) and replace them with larger, denser development. I'm not talking about Poet's Row or anything with character like a lot of the buildings by Humboldt Island or the scattered Art Deco buildings (many of which are still crumbling and no longer affordable, but are at least architecturally interesting) but the cheap brick cubes that (now that I think about it) are the smaller 70-year-old equivalents of the cheap fake-stucco-siding cubes going up now.

I know exactly the apartment buildings you're talking about. They're all over the city, all pretty much look alike, and appear to be built in what, late 50s/early 60s? Some are run down and cheap (Aurora) and I imagine some in areas like Cap Hill have been remodeled and may have high rents. But yeah, I wouldn't cry if some of them were torn down to make way for high rises.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

I just had a conversation about this the other day - eventually we need to start tearing down some of the 2-3 story 40s-70s courtyard/walkup apartment buildings (that were once affordable) and replace them with larger, denser development. I'm not talking about Poet's Row or anything with character like a lot of the buildings by Humboldt Island or the scattered Art Deco buildings (many of which are still crumbling and no longer affordable, but are at least architecturally interesting) but the cheap brick cubes that (now that I think about it) are the smaller 70-year-old equivalents of the cheap fake-stucco-siding cubes going up now.

The microapartment building at 16th and Humboldt, which kicked off the NIMBY small lot parking exemption fiasco, is a great example of the next increment of density from those 3 story mid century buildings. It turned out looking really nice IMO. Though we won't see another one like it, most likely, due to the changes to the small lot requirements.

In Cap Hill/Cheesman/City Park West there are way more single family homes than three story walk ups. I wouldn't shed a tear if we saw many of those SFHs turn into 3-6 story buildings. Though parking requirements would likely deter such projects. I live in one of the walk up buildings buildings from the 60s. It's not crumbling, it's actually rather tidy, and such buildings offer relatively affordable rent. So I wouldn't want to see them all gone at once.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Except for the communist block on Grant, where would you put new developments?

Actually, DenvertoLA asks a good question. It's shocking to me that there has not been much more development on CapHill. I never would have predicted that you would build an entirely new part of the city (RiNo) before you'd densify CapHill. I think there's MASSIVE room for additional dense development on CapHill.

Where? Just check out Google Maps:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7329375,-104.9769482,1982m/data=!3m1!1e3

1. Grant Street Across from Capitol. Great location, could support large apartment building/condos.

2. Logan Street, right behind the parcel on Grant Street. Room for BIG project.

3. Logan Street, between 13th and 14th. A full city block long. Tons of room.

4. Sherman Street, between 12th and 13th (Behind Colorado Art Institute).

5. 12th and Grant Street - Get rid of the Colorado Dept. of Labor Building.

6. 10th and Grant - Nearly Block long parking lot!

7. 9th and Grant - Same as above

8. Logan Street - Between 8th and 7th - Same as Above.

9. Grant Between 8th and 7th - PARKING LOT!!! Build, baby build.


With one exception, that's all empty land available for development. As noted, there's also lots of mediocre apartment buildings that would be candidates for tear down.


Cap Hill has indeed been the red-headed step child of the most current Denver boom. To my knowledge, only one major apartment complex despite all of this empty land.