PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

^Fugly. Although not as good as I’d hoped, they would do well to take a page from Pearl’s overbuild book at the Beacon.

It's not handsome but it's at least interesting. I like it alot. Also, this is not an overbuild. The three story building they're preserving is like 12 feet wide and can be seen to the south of this development. The main part of this building is replacing a series of one story buildings and will be built from the ground up

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by Londonee

If I had to guess, I'd say that this is going to be a massive entertainment and retail podium (not too dissimilar from their Casino proposal) of 3-4 stories: maybe large retail space for something like a Bloomingdales, a House of Blues type venue, maybe tourist entertainment option like a Philly/History themed Madame Tussauds, large footprint chain restaurant like a PF Changs or Bahama Breeze and finally a massive parking garage - all topped with a mixed use Hotel/Residential tower component. Maybe 500-600'?

Given Goldenberg's background and the location (and size of the lot itself, of course), this is where my head is as well. Ideally two towers, though...

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Kfmcshan

200 Race St



From a packet provided to the Historical Committee

http://www.phila.gov/historical/meetingsandevents/Applications/152-64_N2ndSt_IC-lowres.pdf

That billboard will outlive us all.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Kfmcshan

200 Race St



From a packet provided to the Historical Committee

http://www.phila.gov/historical/meetingsandevents/Applications/152-64_N2ndSt_IC-lowres.pdf

I'm in love.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by McBane

8th and Chestnut - Good news to see these lots consolidated. However, what has Goldenberg Group done that makes anyone think they are capable of doing anything on the scale that this giant lot deserves? Their portfolio is mostly suburban shopping centers and their urban work consists of the View (Temple), the Ayer conversion, a small project in G-Ho, and 1213 Walnut (which I like). But nothing that suggests it's prepared to take on such a massive project. Maybe they sell it, but to whom? Brandywine has a ton on their plate; Liberty seems focused on Comcast; PMC - not convinced they could pull it off and still skeptical of the quality of their work. Dranoff? Blatstein? Too small. Would love to see a reputable company from outside the region come in and scoop this up.

You're seriously selling Goldenberg short here: it was only after they acquired their stake in 1213 Walnut that that project happened at all. The original developer, U3 Ventures, doesn't exactly have a good track record getting major buildings built.

I feel very confident that Goldenberg can produce, at minimum, an East Market-scale project at 8th and Market, and I think that they can probably produce something more ambitious too. I bet we're going to be looking at a project that involves three large towers on a shared retail podium: the first phase involving a resi tower at 8th & Chestnut and a hotel at 9th & Market, and sinking foundations in the podium to support an office overbuild at the money corner of 8th & Market proper.

[iamrobk]

Goldenberg's website has "8th & Market" listed under "In Development." When did that show up? It's pretty much completely blank if you actually click on it though.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Sale of PPA's 8th & Chestnut lot hints at future development



More: https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...ppa-8th-chestnut-market-east-casino.html

This is the lot we were teased with a conceptual rendering for a while back showing a huge tower. Looks like things are moving forward, slowly but surely.

Update and more on Philly.com:

With $24 million parking lot deal, Goldenberg Group mulls Market East development | Philly.com

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

You're seriously selling Goldenberg short here: it was only after they acquired their stake in 1213 Walnut that that project happened at all. The original developer, U3 Ventures, doesn't exactly have a good track record getting major buildings built.

I feel very confident that Goldenberg can produce, at minimum, an East Market-scale project at 8th and Market, and I think that they can probably produce something more ambitious too. I bet we're going to be looking at a project that involves three large towers on a shared retail podium: the first phase involving a resi tower at 8th & Chestnut and a hotel at 9th & Market, and sinking foundations in the podium to support an office overbuild at the money corner of 8th & Market proper.

If he wants to help solidify this part of town as the Fashion District, the opportunity to do it now is as good as ever. I like the idea of 3 towers and a shared podium. Make the shared podium equate to 100k square foot of retail with huge glass windows on the first three levels and display mannequins in dress up clothing and maybe take it up a notch with smaller high end stores. Pitch to Bloomingdale's to occupy the 100k and have small higher end boutiques stores take smaller spaces. Throw in another hotel in one of the towers and condo and rentals in the other and bag this thing up as a winner. More residences + hotel guests=more people=more people in the vicinity of the Fashion District=more demand for products. Winner winner, chicken dinner!

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Kfmcshan

200 Race St



From a packet provided to the Historical Committee

http://www.phila.gov/historical/meetingsandevents/Applications/152-64_N2ndSt_IC-lowres.pdf

This area excites me. These developments remind me a lot of the lower Westside Highway in NYC. I'd love to see more developments like this spread across Vine towards NoLibs.

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by Kfmcshan

[xIMG]https://i.imgur.com/1mRuYoQ.jpg?1[/IMG]

[xIMG]https://i.imgur.com/sb7jrc4.jpg?1[/IMG]

200 Race St



From a packet provided to the Historical Committee

http://www.phila.gov/historical/meetingsandevents/Applications/152-64_N2ndSt_IC-lowres.pdf

Geez, how many times do you guys need to post the ENTIRE Image for a 1 or 2 line reply. It clogs up the Forum. Just "X' out IMG with xIMG.
Now if this where an Image of a new 1200+ Footer, I'd shut up.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

You're seriously selling Goldenberg short here: it was only after they acquired their stake in 1213 Walnut that that project happened at all. The original developer, U3 Ventures, doesn't exactly have a good track record getting major buildings built.

I feel very confident that Goldenberg can produce, at minimum, an East Market-scale project at 8th and Market, and I think that they can probably produce something more ambitious too. I bet we're going to be looking at a project that involves three large towers on a shared retail podium: the first phase involving a resi tower at 8th & Chestnut and a hotel at 9th & Market, and sinking foundations in the podium to support an office overbuild at the money corner of 8th & Market proper.

I would LOVE to be wrong, my friend! However, an East Market-scale project (a pair of 200 footers) would be pretty underwhelming. But one thing the developers can borrow from that project is the pedestrian retail walkway (Clover Street?) along Ranstead Street, which runs through the lot. Thus, the ideal scenario for me would be a retail/parking podium along Market Street with two towers and a third tower along Chestnut separated by the pedestrian walkway. At least one of the buildings has to be over 500 feet tall.

One problem is that Goldenberg has never developed office and office demand in general is weak. For those who are looking for something that makes an impact on our skyline, you need that office component b/c no one is building a 45 story residential building at this location.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

That billboard will outlive us all.

Maybe they'll retrofit it with minimalist apartments in the podium some day?

Really love the building. It is unique and shows modern growth over an already dense area. We need more of this.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by McBane

I would LOVE to be wrong, my friend! However, an East Market-scale project (a pair of 200 footers) would be pretty underwhelming. But one thing the developers can borrow from that project is the pedestrian retail walkway (Clover Street?) along Ranstead Street, which runs through the lot. Thus, the ideal scenario for me would be a retail/parking podium along Market Street with two towers and a third tower along Chestnut separated by the pedestrian walkway. At least one of the buildings has to be over 500 feet tall.

One problem is that Goldenberg has never developed office and office demand in general is weak. For those who are looking for something that makes an impact on our skyline, you need that office component b/c no one is building a 45 story residential building at this location.

I don't think it's really rocket science. Goldenberg has done big projects even if not tall highrises. And they can collaborate with others and a good architect and design team. I don't think anyone spends $24 million on land to build a pair of 200 foot buildings.

[jsbrook]

Re 200 Race, I like the shape but not the color. I think SOME contrast in color and material throughout a building is fine and can look great. But this looks like they plunked one building upon an entirely separate building with no cohesion.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Re 200 Race, I like the shape but not the color. I think SOME contrast in color and material throughout a building is fine and can look great. But this looks like they plunked one building upon an entirely separate building with no cohesion.

Agree on color, but I think the shape is clunky as well. No cohesion and jarring contrast. I actually like the Louvre pyramid, so I’m not holding out for a brick box. This is uninspired. I think its, fortunately, just conceptual.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Agree on color, but I think the shape is clunky as well. No cohesion and jarring contrast. I actually like the Louvre pyramid, so I’m not holding out for a brick box. This is uninspired. I think its, fortunately, just conceptual.

Agreed. I'm sure we'll see refinement, and maybe something different entirely for the actual building.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Agree on color, but I think the shape is clunky as well. No cohesion and jarring contrast. I actually like the Louvre pyramid, so I’m not holding out for a brick box. This is uninspired. I think its, fortunately, just conceptual.

I disagree. The link included a proposal with full architectural plans:
http://www.phila.gov/historical/meetingsandevents/Applications/152-64_N2ndSt_IC-lowres.pdf

Some things of note:
There is a blank wall. It seems like there's nothing they can do about that.
The podium looks to be some very nice brickwork. I like the clashing here, it's as if the podium blends in with the surrounding architecture, but the tower rises above it all with the Bridge Apts, representing a step forward for old city.
Let's build it!

[iheartphilly]

^
yep, we all like to complain about a rectangular box as a highrise, then comes this design that doesn't fit the status quo. It's intestering and we need more design diversity and this fits the bill. Do it.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Kfmcshan

200 Race St

This is comically bad.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Justin7

This is comically bad.

If you don't mind my asking, why?
It's a bit difficult for a discussion to start if you just give a blanket opinion.