CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7

[Bombardier]

^I think that is what's needed in the south loop. In the last boom there was a lot of residential built in the south loop, but retail didn't really ever follow. There are some good restaurants in the neighborhood, though... hopefully the new crop of high rises get the neighborhood past the tipping point.

[spyguy]

^Wasn't that supposed to be the Roosevelt Collection? It certainly would be nice to see a coherent shopping district with "unique" stores, although I'm not sure where that could happen...maybe South Michigan Ave or Printers Row?

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First glimpse at the Roszak tower replacing the garage at Randolph and Wabash

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

The South Loop is going to creep up on everyone, just watch.

Sure, the West Loop is where all the excitement is. But after some time, with all of the parking lots filling in, the South Loop will suddenly be on peoples’ radar. I wonder if it will ever develop a genuine shopping corridor. Nothing will ever rival the Mag Mile or State St, but even a 1-2 block long boutique shopping strip could be enough to generate trips from outside the neighborhood

This is not going to happen, at least not anytime soon. The South Loop failed to develop the way the West Loop is developing because the built environment is not conducive to the creative industries that make these kinds of districts possible. The West Loop was able to explode like it did because it remained absurdly low priced for a very long time given it's proximity to downtown. This was made possible by the pocket of industrial users that made productive use of the district until demand became so great that it was worth it for them to relocate.

Where in the South Loop is there a big pocket of dirt cheap old warehouses? Almost everything has already been converted to residential and anything that hasn't is in a PMD and can't be converted.

The other problem is that the South Loop is not central to growth patterns in the outlying neighborhoods. Fundamentally this is what really blew the West Loop up. It is surrounded by the Loop to the East, River North to the NE, West Town to the North, Wicker Park and Ukranian Village to the NW, IMD to the SW, Pilsen and Bridgeport to the South, and UIC literally right there. What's amazing about the West Loop is not what is happening to, but that it didn't happen sooner. It's surrounded on all sides by the most gentrifying neighborhoods.

What is much more likely is for areas to the West of the West Loop to continue maturing. There is a TON of industrial stock along the West side and much of it is totally untouched just waiting for the creatives fleeing the West Loop and Pilsen to set up shop. I also believe that a big box retail corridor like North Ave or Roosevelt is destined to happen on the West Side, probably along Western. I believe the IMD gateway retail project will set this off, we will probably use "Western and Ogden" in much the same way as "North and Clyborn". Also, if you think about it, the West side is much more conducive to developing a big retail district like that simply because there is no river creating choke points for cars. For years North Ave bridge was a nighmere and Roosevelt only did well because there's always been a huge viaduct there.

But think about it, with the two pronged pincer movement of growth headed Southwest through Pilsen and Little Village and West/Northwest through Ukranian Village, Humboldt Park, Wicker, Logan, etc., it's only a matter of time before economic conditions are identical along Western and Ogden near 290 to the conditions of Roosevelt and North. At some point the pocket of blight in Garfield Park will collapse and the entire West Side will be redeveloped.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

This is not going to happen, at least not anytime soon.

If Chicago wins the Amazon bid and they were to pick somewhere down there (The 78, Michael Reese, or even OPO) then I could see the South Loop exploding even more. A big IF though.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

This is not going to happen, at least not anytime soon. The South Loop failed to develop the way the West Loop is developing because the built environment is not conducive to the creative industries that make these kinds of districts possible. The West Loop was able to explode like it did because it remained absurdly low priced for a very long time given it's proximity to downtown. This was made possible by the pocket of industrial users that made productive use of the district until demand became so great that it was worth it for them to relocate.

Where in the South Loop is there a big pocket of dirt cheap old warehouses? Almost everything has already been converted to residential and anything that hasn't is in a PMD and can't be converted.

The other problem is that the South Loop is not central to growth patterns in the outlying neighborhoods. Fundamentally this is what really blew the West Loop up. It is surrounded by the Loop to the East, River North to the NE, West Town to the North, Wicker Park and Ukranian Village to the NW, IMD to the SW, Pilsen and Bridgeport to the South, and UIC literally right there. What's amazing about the West Loop is not what is happening to, but that it didn't happen sooner. It's surrounded on all sides by the most gentrifying neighborhoods.

What is much more likely is for areas to the West of the West Loop to continue maturing. There is a TON of industrial stock along the West side and much of it is totally untouched just waiting for the creatives fleeing the West Loop and Pilsen to set up shop. I also believe that a big box retail corridor like North Ave or Roosevelt is destined to happen on the West Side, probably along Western. I believe the IMD gateway retail project will set this off, we will probably use "Western and Ogden" in much the same way as "North and Clyborn". Also, if you think about it, the West side is much more conducive to developing a big retail district like that simply because there is no river creating choke points for cars. For years North Ave bridge was a nighmere and Roosevelt only did well because there's always been a huge viaduct there.

But think about it, with the two pronged pincer movement of growth headed Southwest through Pilsen and Little Village and West/Northwest through Ukranian Village, Humboldt Park, Wicker, Logan, etc., it's only a matter of time before economic conditions are identical along Western and Ogden near 290 to the conditions of Roosevelt and North. At some point the pocket of blight in Garfield Park will collapse and the entire West Side will be redeveloped.

Well, you are definitely undervaluing the South Loop here. It’s not like it’s Antarctica. It’s also adjacent to many of these same hoods, including the Loop itself. Pilsen, Chinatown, and West Loop is right there.

It has an older building stock that has already been converted, plus don’t forget Motor Row and the stuff going on around McCormick Place.

I see no reason why it couldn’t happen

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

The South Loop failed to develop the way the West Loop is developing because the built environment is not conducive . . . .yada yada yada

Or maybe, just maybe, it's because the West Loop's opposition to highrises and embrace of human-scale midrises gave it a character that makes it a pleasant place to live and a profitable place to open a business. More importantly, it discouraged landowners from swinging for the fences on every parcel, from holding out for the kind of money that could only be recovered by demolition for a new $600/sq ft highrise whose owners would recoil in horror at the thought of a restaurant on the ground floor.

[the urban politician]

^ Last I checked, lots of those midrises in the West Loop lack ground floor retail whatsoever

[harryc]

June 15

[Mr Downtown]

For some reason, there's one window with ordinary clear glass:



harryc's photo

Undoubtedly it's on somebody's punchlist, but I keep trying to figure out how that happened. Did a window assembly leave the factory with the wrong glass? Was it broken in transit and the contractor just went to the hardware store and bought a replacement pane?

[sentinel]

edit

[harryc]

June 15

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

For some reason, there's one window with ordinary clear glass:



harryc's photo

Undoubtedly it's on somebody's punchlist, but I keep trying to figure out how that happened. Did a window assembly leave the factory with the wrong glass? Was it broken in transit and the contractor just went to the hardware store and bought a replacement pane?

It's probably because they accidentally shattered out outer pane with the reflective coatings and not the inner pane. There was one like that on Optima for a while too.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Well, you are definitely undervaluing the South Loop here. It’s not like it’s Antarctica. It’s also adjacent to many of these same hoods, including the Loop itself. Pilsen, Chinatown, and West Loop is right there.

It has an older building stock that has already been converted, plus don’t forget Motor Row and the stuff going on around McCormick Place.

I see no reason why it couldn’t happen

It can't happen because there are no old school buildings for it to happen in. Motor row is miniscule and spans a mere two blocks while being surrounded on all sides by brownfield wastelands.

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Or maybe, just maybe, it's because the West Loop's opposition to highrises and embrace of human-scale midrises gave it a character that makes it a pleasant place to live and a profitable place to open a business. More importantly, it discouraged landowners from swinging for the fences on every parcel, from holding out for the kind of money that could only be recovered by demolition for a new $600/sq ft highrise whose owners would recoil in horror at the thought of a restaurant on the ground floor.

Lol, name one midrise in the West Loop with a non-chain restaurant in it's base. You can't, I'd actually challenge you to find one midrise in the West Loop with anything significant non-chain in it.

The midrises built in the West Loop have been generally garbage and almost the entire "scene" in the West Loop is on Randolph and Fulton, away from the original crop of West Loop new construction. Why is that?

Because the genuine character and availability of space in the North Half of the West Loop is entirely different and better than of the rest of the neighborhood. There is no strip of buildings anything like Randolph or Fulton anywhere in the South Loop. And no Motor row, 2+ miles south of downtown doesn't cut it. It's two blocks long and on the edge of the neighborhood. The West Loop is the way it is for the same reason Division in Wicker, Milwaukee Ave, Clark Street, Armitage in Lincoln Park, etc etc are the way they are: the bones are fertile soil for lively a lively retail street. The South Loop is bombed out by comparison and that has nothing to do with high-rises.

[harryc]

June 13

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

It can't happen because there are no old school buildings for it to happen in. Motor row is miniscule and spans a mere two blocks while being surrounded on all sides by brownfield wastelands.



Lol, name one midrise in the West Loop with a non-chain restaurant in it's base. You can't, I'd actually challenge you to find one midrise in the West Loop with anything significant non-chain in it.

The midrises built in the West Loop have been generally garbage and almost the entire "scene" in the West Loop is on Randolph and Fulton, away from the original crop of West Loop new construction. Why is that?

Because the genuine character and availability of space in the North Half of the West Loop is entirely different and better than of the rest of the neighborhood. There is no strip of buildings anything like Randolph or Fulton anywhere in the South Loop. And no Motor row, 2+ miles south of downtown doesn't cut it. It's two blocks long and on the edge of the neighborhood. The West Loop is the way it is for the same reason Division in Wicker, Milwaukee Ave, Clark Street, Armitage in Lincoln Park, etc etc are the way they are: the bones are fertile soil for lively a lively retail street. The South Loop is bombed out by comparison and that has nothing to do with high-rises.

Sorry, but I really don’t accept your reasoning. The Mag Mile is the greatest shopping strip in the US interior despite having virtually no vintage building stock.

I think the reason for the West Loop’s boom is much more multifactorial than you are even beginning to address.

The South Loop has reasons why it doesn’t have a genuine shopping strip, but I don’t think the lack of “old buildings” is the most important factor, although I’ll grant that this factor may be a contributor.

[AMWChicago]

I rate that glass.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Sorry, but I really don’t accept your reasoning. The Mag Mile is the greatest shopping strip in the US interior despite having virtually no vintage building stock.

I think the reason for the West Loop’s boom is much more multifactorial than you are even beginning to address.

The South Loop has reasons why it doesn’t have a genuine shopping strip, but I don’t think the lack of “old buildings” is the most important factor, although I’ll grant that this factor may be a contributor.

First of all, I never said it's only because there's not old buildings, I cited multiple reasons. But the lack of an intact tract of old buildings is one reason that it will never happen. There isn't a single retail strip in the city that has been built from scratch or mostly from scratch since about 1970 (before WWII if you don't count the weird googie belt districts on the fringes of the city that were built in the old urban style with modern design). It just isn't a thing that happens.

Second of all, are you seriously suggesting that the Mag Mile is an analogue in even the fainest respect for what is going on in the West Loop? That's one of the sillier things I've heard on here for a while. Michigan Ave may not have much vintage stock left, but it has been a retail strip for a century. There is a reason why there isn't any vintage stuff left and it's called big box Marquee retail doesn't like or want vintage buildings because their stores don't fit in them. So many of the older buildings there have bit the dust in favor of modern efficient retail space because you can chrage $250/SF on Boule Mich.

That's got literally zero to do with the South Loop or West Loop. Certainly you don't think that Michigan Ave was pioneered by creative types as was the process I described in the West Loop? Remember when I said that the people who end up creating, working at, and facilitating the types of businesses you see in the West Loop need huge, cheap spaces to attract them?

[harryc]

June 13

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

multifactorial

Triple Word Score!

[marothisu]

It's really good to see Nobu make progress. Then you realize this thing is only going to be 10 floors up and it's probably going to top off in a month or two if everything keeps going LOL. It'll be good to see that one completed.