O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I agree, but when looking at a bus schedule it doesn't take into account the time it takes you to walk to and from the stops as well as time spent waiting for the bus. That is a completely different metric.

The other factor that is reliability. A schedule is great when things are normal, but how often does it actually run on schedule and what are the consequences when it does run behind? The LRT should be much better at keeping its schedule and many of the buses that connect to it, should also be more reliable (if they don't need to go downtown, where traffic is worst).

Yes, we should reap some benefits from reliability but some our worst traffic is actually away from downtown. I was not questioning the benefits of the Confederation Line in making my point. My point simply was that if we are going to truly improve transit, we need to examine a rider's full experience of using transit, not just the rail portion.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

***shift Bayshore station 75m to the east to "allow for improved access to the station as well as a direct future connection for passengers to access this shopping centre." The cost for the change would be negligible and the mall owners would responsible to build and pay for the mall connection (if they choose to do so).

Does anyone know if this change was approved?***

Based on what we can see on GeoOttawa, I think it is safe to say it was approved.

Originally Posted by roger1818

I was thinking the same thing. Alternatively, shift the station an additional 100m and have a bridge into the centre of the mall (near where the Winners is). Still not a great option though.

If we bring it closer to the central part of the mall, it's then further from Acora Village and the bus loop, which could raise safety issues at night (low visibility in a rough neighborhood) and tougher to catch bus connections.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Based on what we can see on GeoOttawa, I think it is safe to say it was approved.

Now why didn't I think to look there.

If we bring it closer to the central part of the mall, it's then further from Acora Village and the bus loop, which could raise safety issues at night (low visibility in a rough neighborhood) and tougher to catch bus connections.

True, though in theory the bus loop could also be moved to that tiny parking lot in the back. That would certainly cost more though (and wouldn't help the Acora Village issue).

I was just thinking, it is possible the long term plan is to convert the parking lot at the west end of the mall (beside The Bay) into mall space, similar to what they did with the parking on the east end of the mall (beside the former Eaton's). If so, they could rotate The Bay 90 deg, and provide a better LRT entrance in the centre of the mall's new western wall.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Now why didn't I think to look there.

.........

Good Day.

maybe because we have no facts nor detail on how the maps are maintained or updated, nor information on what goes into the decisions of those displays or updates. The maps look fine, and seem to indicate a lot of information, but (not that i'm paranoid !!) can we truely trust what they seem to show or imply ? It really would be nice to think so, and I do congratulate the maintainers of the maps, BUT , what is the final basis for what they show ?

EnJoy?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

maybe because we have no facts nor detail on how the maps are maintained or updated, nor information on what goes into the decisions of those displays or updates. The maps look fine, and seem to indicate a lot of information, but (not that i'm paranoid !!) can we truely trust what they seem to show or imply ? It really would be nice to think so, and I do congratulate the maintainers of the maps, BUT , what is the final basis for what they show ?

EnJoy?

They do seem to change frequently, one thing I'm hoping to see show up on GeoOttawa is what's happening between Bowesville and Limebank, but it's not on the map yet.

It seems to indicate their most up-to-date routing plans, but as they do change all the time nothing is truly set in stone.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

They do seem to change frequently, one thing I'm hoping to see show up on GeoOttawa is what's happening between Bowesville and Limebank, but it's not on the map yet.

It seems to indicate their most up-to-date routing plans, but as they do change all the time nothing is truly set in stone.

Has the EA been completed yet?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Has the EA been completed yet?

I don't think so, so that's probably why it's not on GeoOttawa yet

[roger1818]

I was talking to an OCTranspo employee at the Doors Open Simulator Training Facility about how I feel the bus loop at the new Lincoln Fields station will be overbuilt and to my surprise her response was that Moodie Station wasn't going to be big enough to handle all of the buses, so some buses may continue to Lincoln Fields. Now I am hoping she is misinformed on that, but it certainly caught me off guard.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I was talking to an OCTranspo employee at the Doors Open Simulator Training Facility about how I feel the bus loop at the new Lincoln Fields station will be overbuilt and to my surprise her response was that Moodie Station wasn't going to be big enough to handle all of the buses, so some buses may continue to Lincoln Fields. Now I am hoping she is misinformed on that, but it certainly caught me off guard.

With the Transitway and 417 bus lanes gone, that's going to be one awkward slog... especially in rush hour

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

With the Transitway and 417 bus lanes gone, that's going to be one awkward slog... especially in rush hour

It could be a number of routings, such as Kanata-DND-Lincoln Fields via Carling, or Kanata-Bayshore-Lincoln Fields using the routing of the 97 pre-December 2017.

Or it could be a misinformed employee.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

With the Transitway and 417 bus lanes gone, that's going to be one awkward slog... especially in rush hour

That’s basically what I said to her.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by Catenary

It could be a number of routings, such as Kanata-DND-Lincoln Fields via Carling, or Kanata-Bayshore-Lincoln Fields using the routing of the 97 pre-December 2017.

Or it could be a misinformed employee.

I expect it would be Kanata-DND-417-Bayshore-Richmond-Carling-Lincoln Fields. This is what all the buses used to do anyway before the transitway lanes were built.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

I expect it would be Kanata-DND-417-Bayshore-Richmond-Carling-Lincoln Fields. This is what all the buses used to do anyway before the transitway lanes were built.

But if they go to DND, they would likely be stopping at Moodie Station, but the alleged problem is that the bus loop isn't big enough.

I do know they will be keeping the transitway open from Lincoln Fields to the Queensway until stage 2 opens. In theory they could continue to keep it open after, though I am not sure if they would have access to the new Lincoln Fields station.

I strongly suspect that she was just confused or misinformed an no buses will run past Moodie Station.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by roger1818

........
I do know they will be keeping the transitway open from Lincoln Fields to the Queensway until stage 2 opens. In theory they could continue to keep it open after, though I am not sure if they would have access to the new Lincoln Fields station.

......

Good Day.

I would have to contest that, in that the Lincoln Fields station itself will be getting rebuilt for LRT. Yes, the 'new' station will be offset somewhat to the east of the existing, but it will eventually have to be shut down in the latter half of construction. The roadways will be kept for construction mobility, but they too will disappear at the end. LF will become bus accessible only from Carling. South of LF will be rail only - no roadway remaining.

As always, timing of staging and phasing will be up to the contractor (and will undoubtedly be hidden from we peons as long as possible to minimize complaints.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by roger1818

But if they go to DND, they would likely be stopping at Moodie Station, but the alleged problem is that the bus loop isn't big enough.

I do know they will be keeping the transitway open from Lincoln Fields to the Queensway until stage 2 opens. In theory they could continue to keep it open after, though I am not sure if they would have access to the new Lincoln Fields station.

I strongly suspect that she was just confused or misinformed an no buses will run past Moodie Station.

It is possible to have a station with the stop capacity but not the terminal capacity. Any bus starting/ending at Moodie needs a place to layup nearby. If the station has platform space but not enough layup space, buses must layup elsewhere. This causes the issue at Mackenzie King, where the layup is down at Vanier Parkway, and afternoon routes often start late due to congestion between the layup and the first stop.

[Richard Eade]

As I understand it, from talks that I have had with the people planning it, the SW Transitway between Lincoln Fields and the 417 will be shifted slightly west (closer to the Pinecrest Creek). This will allow the new tracks can be built east of the Transitway while buses continue to use the Sir JAM Parkway and Transitway to/from the existing bus ramps at the 417. The Queensway Station will be removed as soon as this work begins, since only the west span will be used for (now north-bound) buses. The east span under the 417 will be where the tracks will be laid.

The widening of the 417 between Woodroffe and the 416 will be coordinated, as it was (still is) in the east end, so that the buses will get exclusive use of the new lanes until the LRT starts running to Moodie. Once the LRT is running, the new 417 lanes and the space that is currently the upper Queensway Station will be handed over to the MTO for regular traffic use.

Also once the LRT is up and running, the segment of SW Transitway between Lincoln Fields and the 417 will be turned over to the NCC to do with as they see fit. It is likely that the NCC will want the City to tear out the roadway and rehabilitate the area to park land – at the City’s expense, of course.

Note that, because there is too much construction needed in the Iris LRT Station area, the Transitway between the 417 and Baseline can not be maintained. Buses will, instead, either travel from Lincoln Fields to Woodroffe via Carling or (less likely) exit the Sir JAM at Woodroffe and jog over from Woodroffe to Woodroffe at Carling. Either way, Woodroffe between Carling and Baseline will likely get temporary bus-only lanes. (And you thought that traffic on Woodroffe was bad now.)

How the buses will actually be routed in the west is not out in the public yet, so we are left to guess. For example, the buses from Kanata will still have their bus lanes to Moodie and they will have new bus lanes from there to the (remaining) SW Transitway, but that kind of by-passes Bayshore. They will be able to use the short length of Western Transitway between Moodie and Pinecrest Stations (to get back to the 417 at Pinecrest) for a while, but eventually that will need to be converted to rail.

It will be interesting to see what actually happens. Will the buses simply skip Bayshore Station and ‘ramp-surf’ at Pinecrest for a year? More likely, east-bound buses will get off the 417 at Holly Acres and then enter the Bayshore Station from there; then back out to Holly Acres, Richmond to the 417 (unless the MTO finally builds their new on-ramp from Holly Acres and removes the existing one from Richmond). Buses in both directions would likely ‘surf’ the Pinecrest ramps. West-bound, buses would exit to Bayshore Drive, going around the shopping centre to the Bayshore Station; use the remaining bus access to Holly Acres, then onto the 417 to get to Moodie. It is slow, awkward, routing, but it is what I think will happen for the last year, or so.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

As I understand it, from talks that I have had with the people planning it, the SW Transitway between Lincoln Fields and the 417 will be shifted slightly west (closer to the Pinecrest Creek). This will allow the new tracks can be built east of the Transitway while buses continue to use the Sir JAM Parkway and Transitway to/from the existing bus ramps at the 417. The Queensway Station will be removed as soon as this work begins, since only the west span will be used for (now north-bound) buses. The east span under the 417 will be where the tracks will be laid.

How will east bound buses on the 417 get onto the transityway? Currently they cross the transitway and then cloverleaf on the east side, but that would mean crossing the LRT tracks at grade during construction. My guess is they will build a cloverleaf on the west side. No worries about making a left turn onto the transitway as there will be no traffic south of the 417.

The widening of the 417 between Woodroffe and the 416 will be coordinated, as it was (still is) in the east end, so that the buses will get exclusive use of the new lanes until the LRT starts running to Moodie. Once the LRT is running, the new 417 lanes and the space that is currently the upper Queensway Station will be handed over to the MTO for regular traffic use.

That makes sense.

Also once the LRT is up and running, the segment of SW Transitway between Lincoln Fields and the 417 will be turned over to the NCC to do with as they see fit. It is likely that the NCC will want the City to tear out the roadway and rehabilitate the area to park land – at the City’s expense, of course.

Very likely, yes, but there is a slight chance they will try to find a way to extend the parkway to the 417 (likely to/from the west only). The tough part will be the cloverleaf from the 417 eastbound as described above. If they had designed the LRT to run in a straight line from the 417 to Baseline rather than curve around to stay in the middle of the park, it would have given them a bit more room for a cloverleaf. This would also save them from having to reroute Pinecrest Creak at Iris Station.

How the buses will actually be routed in the west is not out in the public yet, so we are left to guess. For example, the buses from Kanata will still have their bus lanes to Moodie and they will have new bus lanes from there to the (remaining) SW Transitway, but that kind of by-passes Bayshore. They will be able to use the short length of Western Transitway between Moodie and Pinecrest Stations (to get back to the 417 at Pinecrest) for a while, but eventually that will need to be converted to rail.

Will they have bus lanes from Moodie or just east of the 416? I thought the 417 widening is to (not through) the 416 exchange, thus it will stay 3 lanes there. Eastbound the 416 off ramp prevents them from effectively building a bus lane (which is why they extended the transitway instead).

It will be interesting to see what actually happens. Will the buses simply skip Bayshore Station and ‘ramp-surf’ at Pinecrest for a year? More likely, east-bound buses will get off the 417 at Holly Acres and then enter the Bayshore Station from there; then back out to Holly Acres, Richmond to the 417 (unless the MTO finally builds their new on-ramp from Holly Acres and removes the existing one from Richmond).

I strongly suspect that is what they will do.

Buses in both directions would likely ‘surf’ the Pinecrest ramps. West-bound, buses would exit to Bayshore Drive, going around the shopping centre to the Bayshore Station; use the remaining bus access to Holly Acres, then onto the 417 to get to Moodie. It is slow, awkward, routing, but it is what I think will happen for the last year, or so.

I suspect they will turn left on Richmond, right on Holly Acres and right into the station. Maybe a bit longer, but it's faster than running along Bayshore drive.

[AuxTown]

Well my friends and neighbours managed to vote in a racist PC candidate for my riding here in Kanata. Does anyone think phase 2 is at risk with the new PC government? Do you think ridings with PC representation will be more likely to be included in upcoming projects? Gonna be an interesting 4 years up here with Trump North in power.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Well my friends and neighbours managed to vote in a racist PC candidate for my riding here in Kanata. Does anyone think phase 2 is at risk with the new PC government? Do you think ridings with PC representation will be more likely to be included in upcoming projects? Gonna be an interesting 4 years up here with Trump North in power.

Lisa MacLeod is going to be senior cabinet minister from Ottawa. Fullerton, Roberts, and Ghamari aren't really cabinet material. I'm sure one of them will get some minor post (probably Ghamari), but they'll take a major backseat to MacLeod on local issues.

This means that LRT to Barrhaven, currently not really in anyone's radar, might end up moving higher on the priority list.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This means that LRT to Barrhaven, currently not really in anyone's radar, might end up moving higher on the priority list.

Or not. The PCs are intellectually married at the hip to driving culture.